Cars

Hey guys.  Off topic...
What kind of big family vehicles are you guys driving?  I know what Ju drives.  Nice and roomy.   I know what I want but can't afford (Nissan NV).   And I need something cheaper.

We have this terrible sales tax in CA that will cost us thousands of dollars in taxes and registration if we get a different car, so that is a huge disincentive.  Right now we have an 8 passenger Sienna, which we love, but it is squishy with seven (two in boosters)  and I'm worried about future road trips.

So I was just wondering what other options might be out there.

The quotes I used to teach my RS lesson today

I taught RS today and I talked about women and the priesthood.  I had to laugh because Kami urged caution in my teaching on this topic while Marilyn urged that I forge ahead as it is a timely and necessary topic.  It didn't matter either way.  I got so caught up talking about Eve and how women are viewed by our Father in Heaven that I didn't even get to the crux of matter.  Well, we got to it but not as into it as I had intended.

I started by saying that President Hinckley saying that we don't know why women don't hold the priesthood is still the best answer we have.  Then I talked about Eve and how important it is to understand how different the LDS view of women is compared to other Christian denominations.  Then we talked about how men and women have a symbiotic relationship and how fatherhood is more important than priesthood responsibilities and how fatherhood/motherhood are the most important roles we have.

Then I talked briefly about how we have access to the priesthood through the covenants we made in the temple (nobody protested, Kami) and how we need to live up to the privileges we've been given and utilize the power of the priesthood we have been given in abundance.

Here's the quotes.

HOW DOES GOD VIEW WOMEN?  HOW DO WE KNOW?

Eve--a daughter of God, one of the spirit offspring of the Almighty Elohim-- was among the noble and great in the preexistence. She ranked in spiritual stature, in faith and devotion, in conformity to eternal law with Michael.

--Elder Bruce R. McConkie

Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall.

--Elder Dallin H. Oaks

The incorrect idea in Christian history that wives should be dependent began with the false premise that the fall of Adam and Eve was a tragic mistake and that Eve was the primary culprit. Thus women's traditional submission to men was considered a fair punishment for Eve's sin. Thankfully, the Restoration clarifies Eve's -- and Adam's -- choice as essential to the eternal progression of God's children. We honor rather than condemn what they did, and we see Adam and Eve as equal partners.

--Elder Bruce C. Hafen, “Crossing Thresholds and Becoming Equal Partners.”

Christ and Mary, Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, and a host of mighty men and equally glorious women comprised that group of “the noble and great ones,” to whom the Lord Jesus said: “We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell” (Abraham 3:22-24). This we know: Christ, under the Father, is the Creator; Michael his companion and associate, presided over much of the creative work; and with them as Abraham saw, were many of the noble and great ones. Can we do other than conclude that Mary and Eve and Sarah and myriads of our faithful sisters were numbered among them? Certainly these sisters labored as diligently then, and fought as valiantly in the war in heaven, as did the brethren, even as they in like manner stand firm today, in mortality, in the cause of truth and righteousness.

--“Eve and the Fall,” in Spencer W. Kimball and others, Woman (1979), 59.  Also in “The Man Adam,” by Robert L. Millet

(Long quote by Ida Smith, August 1980 Ensign)  One newly restored truth that the Prophet taught—hard for the world to swallow in his day, and still misinterpreted by many in our own time—was the Lord’s view of women. The Prophet taught that men and women are of equal value and of equal importance in the sight of God. He preached that in order for a man to achieve his highest potential (the celestial kingdom and godhood) he must have a woman—equally exalted—by his side and sealed to him forever! (See D&C 131:1–4.) A just God would not require the yoking of two unequal beings for eternity. Building upon the foundation laid by Joseph Smith, subsequent prophets taught that God was not single, but married; that there is a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother; and that we were made in their image: male and female children. (See James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965–75, 4:203, 205.)

As temples were built and temple ordinances restored, our understanding of the male/female relationship has increased: Both men and women are conditionally sealed to become kings and queens, priests and priestesses. Both share the blessings of the priesthood. Both share the gifts of the spirit (i.e., to heal, to be healed, to speak in tongues, to prophesy, etc.).

As Paul stated, “neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:11). This is true even though marriage may or may not happen during our stay in the second estate. President Kimball stated in his talk to women in September 1979:

It is important for a woman to learn in this life her eternal role so that when she is sealed she will be prepared and ready—with all her heart—to function in and glorify that role. That means being ready and prepared to function as a full partner in a celestial team—without having to look up because of any feeling of inferiority, or look down because of any feeling of superiority, but look across into the eyes of an equally prepared, equally magnificent eternal mate.

Such an exalted role for women was mind-boggling for nineteenth-century America. Here, as elsewhere, society was male dominated, and men were generally regarded as being superior. Men were not only to be protectors of women, but were responsible for their salvation as well.

When the Prophet Joseph Smith organized the Relief Society after the pattern of the priesthood in 1842, he told the women that they were responsible for their own sins. For some this was a radical thought in those days. He taught them they were responsible for their own salvation, that they had access to every needed blessing the priesthood gives, that they also had direct access to the Holy Ghost and to spiritual gifts and they also had direct access to the Savior—to model him, become like him, be heirs in his kingdom. (See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1938, pp. 223–229.)

The Prophet removed some of the excuses afforded woman in her passive, dependent role, and made her responsible for herself! Many of the early Mormon sisters caught his vision for women, got in the game, and ran with the ball. Women in Utah and Wyoming had the vote fifty years before women in the country received it generally. And as we read and ponder the writings of many nineteenth-century Latter-day Saint women, we know that they knew who they were.

Some women complain that they have no strong role models in the scriptures. That is not true. We have many models there. And our main one is the Savior, himself. Nowhere is it written that he is a model for men only; and nowhere is it written that men and women should each be allowed only half of his traits! The world has divided up personality traits that should be characteristic of both men and women, and has labeled some of them “masculine” and some of them “feminine.” Latter-day prophets do teach that men and women have biological, emotional, and other differences, but we should be careful about assigning mutually exclusive traits to one sex or the other. Nowhere, for example, does the Lord say that tenderness, kindness, charity, faithfulness, patience, gentleness, and compassion are strictly female traits and should be utilized by women only. And nowhere does he say that courage, strength, determination, and leadership should be the exclusive prerogative of men. Any notion that God desired that women be passive should have been dispelled when the Prophet told women that they were responsible for their own salvation.

--Sister Ida Smith, August 1980 Ensign The Lord as a Role Model for Men and Women

WHY WOMEN DON’T HOLD THE PRIESTHOOD: Symbiotic relationship

She labored beside her companion. Adam held the priesthood. Eve served in matriarchal partnership with the patriarchal priesthood. So today, each wife may join with her husband as a partner unified in purpose. Scriptures state clearly, “Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:11). “They twain shall be one flesh” (Matt. 19:6; Mark 10:8; D&C 49:16). Marvelously, it takes a man and a woman to make a man or a woman. Without union of the sexes, neither can we exist, nor can we become perfect. Ordinary and imperfect people can build each other through their wholeness together. The complete contribution of one partner to the other is essential to exaltation. This is so “that the earth might answer the end of its creation” (D&C 49:16). So labor and love in partnership. Honor your companion. Any sense of competition for place or position is not appropriate for either partner, especially when enlightened by scriptural understanding.

--Elder Russell M. Nelson, Lessons From Eve, October 1987 

When we kneel to pray, we kneel together. When we kneel at the altar of the holy temple, we kneel together. When we approach the final gate where Jesus Himself is the gatekeeper, we will, if faithful, pass through that gate together.

--Elder Neal A. Maxwell

My young sisters, some will try to persuade you that because you are not ordained to the priesthood you have been shortchanged. They are simply wrong, and they do not understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. The blessings of the priesthood are available to every righteous man and woman. We may all receive the Holy Ghost, obtain personal revelation, and be endowed in the temple, from which we emerge “armed” with power. The power of the priesthood heals, protects, and inoculates all of the righteous against the powers of darkness. Most significantly, the fullness of the priesthood contained in the highest ordinances of the house of the Lord can only be received by a man and woman together. Said President Harold B. Lee: “Pure womanhood plus priesthood means exaltation. But womanhood without priesthood, or priesthood without pure womanhood doesn’t spell exaltation.” Sisters, we as women are not diminished by priesthood power, we are magnified by it. I know this is true, for I have experienced it again and again.

--Sister Sheri Dew, "It Is Not Good for Man or Woman to Be Alone," (October 6, 2001)

Finally, remember: When we return to our real home, it will be with the “mutual approbation” of those who reign in the “royal courts on high.” There we will find beauty such as mortal “eye hath not seen”; we will hear sounds of surpassing music which mortal “ear hath not heard.” Could such a regal homecoming be possible without the anticipatory arrangements of a Heavenly Mother?

--Elder Neal A. Maxwell

An exalted and glorified Man of Holiness (Moses 6:57) could not be a Father unless a Woman of like glory, perfection, and holiness was associated with him as a Mother. The begetting of children makes a man a father and a woman a mother whether we are dealing with man in his mortal or immortal state.

--Elder Bruce R. McConkie

GREAT LIES OF SATAN

Men and women are in competition with each other.

Motherhood is of lesser importance because no money is involved. 

Eve sinned.

Homemaking is not just baking bread or cleaning a house. Homemaking is to make the environment necessary to nurture our children toward eternal life, which is our responsibility as parents. And that homemaking is as much for fathers as it is for mothers.

--Elder Dallin H. Oaks

There is no task, however menial, connected with the care of babies, the nurturing of children, or with the maintenance of the home that is not the husband’s equal obligation. The tasks, which come with parenthood, which many consider to be below other tasks, are simply above them.

--President Boyd K. Packer

Opportunities for development of spiritual and intellectual potential are equal. Masculinity has no monopoly on the mind, and femininity has no exclusive dominion over the heart. The highest titles of human achievement—teacher, educated professional, loyal employee, faithful friend, student of the scriptures, child of God, disciple of Christ, trusted companion, loving parent—are earned under a uniform requirement of worthiness.  --Elder Russell M. Nelson

WHAT WE DO HAVE

“The priesthood is God’s power... it is His power to create, to bless, to lead, to serve as He does. The priesthood duty of every righteous man is to qualify to hold the priesthood so he can bless his family, while the priesthood duty of sisters is to create life, nurture God’s children, and prepare them to make covenants with the Lord.... Don’t confuse the power of the priesthood with the keys and offices of the priesthood. The power is limitless and is shared with those who make and keep covenants. Too much is said and misunderstood about what brothers have and sisters don’t. This is Satan’s way of confusing men and women so that neither understands what they really have.

--Sister Julie B. Beck, LDS Women's Conference 2011

Recently I reviewed this Primary song. You’re familiar with it. It says, “Mine is a home where ev’ry hour is blessed by the strength of priesthood pow’r, With father and mother leading the way.” Mine is a home where every hour is blessed by the strength of priesthood power. That is your responsibility, sisters, to help your home be a home that is blessed every hour by priesthood power. It isn’t just when Dad is there. It’s not just when Mom is there. It’s not just when a priesthood ordinance or blessing is being performed. It’s every hour as ordinances, as covenants, are made and kept.

--Sister Julie B. Beck, LDS Women's Conference 2011

ARE WE LIVING UP TO OUR PRIVILEGES?

Elder Neal A. Maxwell (1926–2004) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said that for too long in the Church, the men have been the theologians while the women have been the Christians. To be equal partners, each should be both a theologian and a Christian.

--Elder Bruce Hafen and Sister Marie Hafen

Regarding women and the organization of the Relief Society: “There is an immense amount of talent, and I may say of real sound statesmanship within a community of ladies; and if they would only train their minds, and exercise the rights and privileges that are legitimately theirs, and would contemplate subjects that they now pass over and never think about, they would find they have an immense amount of influence in guiding, directing, and controlling human affairs.”

--President Brigham Young

D&C 38: 32 Wherefore, for this cause I gave unto you the commandment that ye should go to the Ohio; and there I will give unto you my claw; and there you shall be endowed with power from on high;

 38:38 See that all things are preserved; and when men are endowed with power from on high and sent forth, all these things shall be gathered unto the bosom of the church.

(Endowment) In a general sense, a gift of power from God. Worthy members of the Church can receive a gift of power through ordinances in the temple that gives them the instruction and covenants of the Holy Priesthood that they need in order to attain exaltation. The endowment includes instruction about the plan of salvation.

A temple is a place in which those whom He has chosen are endowed with power from on high—a power which enables us to use our gifts and capabilities with greater intelligence and increased effectiveness in order to bring to pass our Heavenly Father’s purposes in our own lives and the lives of those we love. (David B Haight, April 1992)

(Another long Ida Smith quote)   President Kimball, in essence, has been urging women to get in condition, get involved in the life around them, and in more positive ways become a greater influence for good on what is happening in the world. He has urged women to become educated, to become gospel scholars, to develop every talent with which the Lord has blessed them, and then to use those talents for the benefit of mankind. We need to learn and then teach each other the exalted role of women as revealed by the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. We need to be sure our spouses understand it. And if we have children, we need to be sure that our sons and our daughters understand it.

The Prophet Joseph said in 1842 that the key was now turned in behalf of women, and that knowledge and intelligence would flow down henceforth (see Teachings, p. 229). President Kimball put it this way to women in September 1979:

“Much of the major growth that is coming to the Church in the last days will come because many of the good women of the world (in whom there is often such an inner sense of spirituality) will be drawn to the Church in large numbers. This will happen to the degree that the women of the Church reflect righteousness and articulateness in their lives and to the degree that the women of the Church are seen as distinct and different—in happy ways—from the women of the world.”

He also counseled:

“You must be wise in the choices that you make, but we do not desire the women of the Church to be uninformed or ineffective. You will be better mothers and wives, both in this life and in eternity, if you sharpen the skills you have been given and use the talents with which God has blessed you” (Ensign, Nov. 1979, pp. 104, 103).

We have been taught that where much is given, much is expected. If we as Latter-day Saints really understand the gospel of Jesus Christ and all it offers women, we know that no blessing can be withheld from us if we are prepared and worthy to receive it. The Lord expects us to be exemplars and teachers. I pray that we may catch the understanding and vision of who we really are—and so be.  Ida Smith

Response to Kelly

Kelly that is awesome and beautiful.  Congrats again.

I think we are going to do NFP.  The reason I was on the mini pill after Oskar is because I don't have periods while I nurse.  As far as I'm aware it is hard to track your cycle without that key reference point.    There are free NFP classes at the local hospital.  Should Timothy and I attend one or can you figure everything out just as well from the internet?  Do you have any experience with the computers designed to track your cycle?

Andrea

If I could do the NFP thing I totally would.  I might still be desperate enough to risk it.

Yes - it is baby number 6...a little surprise souvenir we brought back from Mexico this winter.  ;-)  But we are super excited.  After we told the kids, both of our older daughters said that they'd been feeling lately like they were missing a sibling.  Josh and I had similar feelings in the year or so leading up to this event, so it was special to think that we were all getting prepared for this addition!

Response to Kelly

Birth control:  I am scared of IUDs.  First because they stay inside you which is weird (I also don't wear tampons so I am fully cognizant that I am the weird one).  Second, I don't want a hormonal one because I know I don't respond well to hormones.  I don't want a non-hormonal one because nobody is exactly sure how they prevent pregnancy and I am uncomfortable with that.

The pill creates unpleasant hormonal problems for me.

Abstinence is not an option and neither is only condoms--I hate condoms and with both abstinence and condoms my marriage is likely to suffer.

So . . . we're thinking of buying the little computer thing that records your temp every day and gives you a red light when you're fertile and a green light when you're not.  That way we are doing NFP but without my having to record it all myself.  Plus, we only have to use condoms on red days which is a easier for me to wrap my head around for the long term.  Fortunately, I am extremely regular.

I also think that the open womb/closed womb idea is wonderful.  I don't have the faith to trust it.  I am much more inclined to think that Heavenly Father wants us to seek his counsel and then do our part.

I'm glad you posted about your mom--see, other people have heard this counsel.  That was something my family members have said; it can't be that important if we haven't heard about it before.

I'll read the depression one when I have a little more time.

PS Is this your 6th?  Congrats on the pregnancy--that is wonderful!

surgical sterilization

I'm not sure what the old handbook said, but I have a vivid memory of learning this lesson when I was a teenager.  My YW leader had told us a story about how she or her husband had gotten sterilized, and then after a bit they ended up pregnant, and she felt like this baby was a special blessing that was meant to come to her family.  My mom jumped on that and pointed out to me that the prophets had counseled against those sorts of procedures.  I'm sure she didn't want me to get the impression that we can do whatever we want with our bodies and Heavenly Father's plan will come to pass no matter what.

That story, and your SIL's experience with her stake president, reminded me of Elder Holland's recent conference talk where he said God has imperfect mortals to work with and how frustrating it could be to Him.  We don't always get the messages we should be getting from our church leaders because they are no more perfect than we are.  I think if someone counsels against what is in the handbook, I would disregard that (since the handbook is technically coming from a higher source).

Anyway, timely topic for me, as I was studying on it last week.  I'm 6.5 months pregnant and pretty sure this is the final baby.  I don't think Heavenly Father has any more planned for us (at least it would be QUITE a while down the road, and then probably not through my own pregnancy), so I feel good about that situation.  I'm just trying to decide what to do about it.  I have mixed feelings.

On one hand is the open womb/closed womb idea, which I think takes a lot of faith and can be right for some people.

On the other hand is the idea of making a prayerful decision and then YOU and spouse exercise responsibility and take care of your birth control needs - which involves using the mortal agency that God has given us.

I think I lean towards the second philosophy, but I just really want to be sure that I'm doing the RIGHT thing, you know?

Anyway, Andrea, if birth control pills are not for you, have you decided on alternatives (if that's not too personal)?  I have tried the pill which worked fairly well for me, I just have an environmental/health issue with them.  I've also tried an IUD (non-hormone) which was only moderately successful as I had some side effects that I'd rather not deal with - but in terms of simplicity it was fabulous.  AND I tried NFP which I think is totally ideal except that my silly body isn't regular so it's really hard to do (so for me, using this method involves a lot of faith in the open/closed womb idea).    I've also had long periods of infertility (thus the reason I have some huge gaps between my children).  That has been the most effective. ;-)


On another topic, a friend of mine shared an article about postpartum depression that I found pretty interesting.
http://www.kindredcommunity.com/2011/10/how-other-cultures-prevent-postpartum-depression/

Why No Vasectomies

Some of you are aware that in the most recent handbook there was information about vasectomies and tubals.  Here's the quote:

21.4.15 Surgical Sterilization (Including Vasectomy)
The Church strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control. Surgical sterilization should be considered only if (1) medical conditions seriously jeopardize life or health or (2) birth defects or serious trauma have rendered a person mentally incompetent and not responsible for his or her actions. Such conditions must be determined by competent medical judgment and in accordance with law. Even then, the persons responsible for this decision should consult with each other and with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of their decision through prayer. 


Since the discovery of this little snippet of information, my family has been discussing it extensively.  Some members of the family still feel like it is okay to get a vasectomy if they are absolutely sure they are done having kids, and others (myself included) feel that this is a black/white issue now and will forgo surgical sterilization in the future.  My SIL asked her stake president about it and he said he felt like vasectomies are fine regardless of the handbook instruction.  So . . . what I'm about to say is doctrine according to me.


I've been thinking and thinking about the why behind no surgical sterilization.  Since birth control is fine, why not permanent birth control?  I think I found an answer that satisfies me in, no surprise, a Bednar talk.  His talk on chastity, to be more specific.

"The power of procreation is spiritually significant. Misuse of this power subverts the purposes of the Father’s plan and of our mortal existence. Our Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son are creators and have entrusted each of us with a portion of Their creative power. Specific guidelines for the proper use of the ability to create life are vital elements in the Father’s plan. How we feel about and use that supernal power will determine in large measure our happiness in mortality and our destiny in eternity.

Elder Dallin H. Oaks explained:

“The power to create mortal life is the most exalted power God has given his children."

Getting surgically sterilized appears ungrateful in light of Elder Oaks comment.  Even if we aren't using the exalted power of procreation, we should be respecting the power given to us.  We wanted to have Timothy get a vasectomy for convenience sake, to make our lives easier.  It is essentially a selfish reason that doesn't take into consideration the magnitude of the gift given to us to be co-creators with God.  

Also, for all of our marriage I have been in charge of preventing pregnancy.  Since the pill does crazy stuff to my hormonal balance I have long resented Timothy for how little he had to worry about it.  I've come to believe that the pill isn't as easy of a solution as it first seems.  Not that I think you shouldn't use it--there isn't any inherent difference in the non-permanent forms of birth control, but for me, personally, I think it hasn't been very good for our marriage.  Since I refused to be on any form of the pill ever again, my resentment has gone.  We are working together and both of us have to deal with the effects of pregnancy prevention--not just me.  (As a side note--Timothy would have been willing to do this earlier, I tend to have a martyr complex at times and fail to address issues with my husband so absolutely no blame on him for my feelings.)  Maybe part of learning to bridle all our passions is learning to work together with gratitude on this issue rather than looking for an easy out?

And maybe, like my sister Kayli has mentioned, we just don't understand or fully appreciate our mortal bodies in general.  Elder Bednar talks about that in his chastity talk as well.   

"Satan relentlessly works to distort the most important elements of the Father’s plan. He does not have a body, and his eternal progress has been halted. Just as water flowing in a riverbed is stopped by a dam, so the adversary’s eternal progress is thwarted because he does not have a physical body. Because of his rebellion, Lucifer has denied himself all of the mortal blessings and experiences made possible through a body of flesh and bones. He cannot learn the lessons that only an embodied spirit can learn. He resents the reality of a literal and universal resurrection of all mankind. One of the potent scriptural meanings of the word damned is illustrated in his inability to continue developing and becoming like our Heavenly Father.

Because a physical body is so central to the Father’s plan of happiness and our spiritual development, Lucifer seeks to frustrate our progression by tempting us to use our bodies improperly. One of the ultimate ironies of eternity is that the adversary, who is miserable precisely because he has no physical body, entices us to share in his misery through the improper use of our bodies. The very tool he does not have is thus the primary target of his attempts to lure us to spiritual destruction."

Maybe you think I'm a loon and should just go with my SIL's stake president's view of the matter, but I'm pretty satisfied in my own mind that there is a reason for the counsel.  

Child-directed learning

Amen to everything you said Marilyn.  I am much more of a fan of child-directed learning now than I was before I started to homeschool.  My children are curious about everything and I can see how learning one thing would lead them to be curious about something else and from that to something else and on and on.  Finding subjects to study wouldn't be a problem.

I also think the school the guest kept talking about sounded awesome.  I am completely convinced that if a person is motivated he learns faster and more effectively than if he is forced.  I can totally believe that someone could avoid learning any math for years and then learn everything necessary to score well on the ACT in a few months (with a good mentor).  Plus, you'd get a better score because the information was fresh.  The longer I stay out of the traditional model of education the less I like it.  Not to say that it doesn't do an adequate job of educating or that teachers aren't awesome.

As for my loosening up and approaching my children's education in a more flexible way: I have such a hard time with any lack of structure. I have finally managed to let go of "we have to learn" and have embraced "we'll get around to learning everything important eventually."  I can't, however, let go of the "you have a talent in this area so you must work on it" and "you will be useful in the Kingdom so you will learn this."

Maybe someone with my personality just plain can't unschool?  I can, however, take back every uneducated thing I ever said about unschooling.  I really believe it could work and children could thrive  with parents that use that approach.

Free to Learn

Andrea, I listened to that program. I thought it was really interesting. I went to the guy's website too and he has some interesting ideas on there. I guess it's hard for me to let go of the "curriculum" idea completely (hence, I am a homeschooler not an unschooler) but I see a lot of value in the child-directed learning model. I guess I try to do that to some extent, by focusing more on what the kids seem intrigued by as we go along. But I also think that the kids might not KNOW what they like until I introduce it to them.

It reminded me of the "non-compulsory education" bill someone is trying to pass. It will never get passed, of course---the education system is too engrained in all of us, and we can all imagine the horror stories of neglectful parents etc---but I think it's kind of logical, actually, that without the full weight of The State behind our current education model, more people would be brave enough to explore other options.

What do you think?

I listened to this episode of Radio West and thought it was really interesting.  Would love to hear what people think about it before I add my two cents.

http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/free-learn