Wednesday, November 9, 2011
Tuesday, November 8, 2011
Other TJEd article on Misfit
I was looking through Misfit's blog (addicting in a strange way) and found she had a new TJEd post that I liked much better than her first one as it addressed more of the implementation concerns rather than the founder's instability concerns.
http://www.misfitcygnet.com/2011/11/the-question-of-deception-a-few-major-flaws-with-thomas-jefferson-education/
Anyone else read it?
http://www.misfitcygnet.com/2011/11/the-question-of-deception-a-few-major-flaws-with-thomas-jefferson-education/
Anyone else read it?
Misfit Again
I am going to call Kelly to repentance now. Kelly, there are several other Misfit articles I want to discuss here, so no skipping around. Stay focused.
Ha. That was fun.
On to the matter at hand. I have to agree with Marilyn, Kelly, and Autumn about Misfit's general tone. However, I also find it refreshing sometimes. There is a lot of pussy-footing around issues in the world/church, and while I think sheer abrasiveness for abrasiveness' sake is unnecessary, it also caught my attention and made me think. I don't know if a gentler, more humble tone would have done that in quite the same way. On the flip side, I don't think many people who follow TJEd would be open to hearing her viewpoint because of her tone. You shouldn't alienate your audience.
As for TJEd, I have also read much of the materials and thought about the principles and pondered applying them in my homeschool. Eventually I decided against it (even though Julia calls me a closet TJEder) because of the BLATANT DISHONESTY of telling people that their own education is inadequate (playing on all homeschoolers' insecurity about doing the best thing for their children) and that they only way to get an adequate education is to spend lots of money getting a degree from a non-accredited school. Lots of moral self-satisfaction, I suppose, that you now are truly educated, but a complete waste of time and money otherwise. Perhaps Oliver DeMille is a wonderful person, but his "university" is a scam--there just plain isn't a nice way to say it.
I do, however, disagree with Misfit about if something is a lie than it is all bad. Marilyn put it perfectly so I don't need to rehash it. My concern is that the good in TJEd is thought of as TJEd goodness instead of being recognized as obvious good teaching practices (although there are plenty of bad teaching practices put forward as well) that many other people have also advocated. I also get bugged by the cult-like adherence of some of its followers. But again, just because I disagree with some of the teaching practices doesn't mean I have to disregard the obvious good in TJEd--like reading classics and recognizing that small children don't need to be pushed academically.
So . . . my closing remarks. I agreed with some of what Misfit said, but her whole premise--that because Oliver DeMille is a bad person you should avoid TJEd like the plague--is faulty. While I have many concerns about TJEd, her concerns are not mine.
Ha. That was fun.
On to the matter at hand. I have to agree with Marilyn, Kelly, and Autumn about Misfit's general tone. However, I also find it refreshing sometimes. There is a lot of pussy-footing around issues in the world/church, and while I think sheer abrasiveness for abrasiveness' sake is unnecessary, it also caught my attention and made me think. I don't know if a gentler, more humble tone would have done that in quite the same way. On the flip side, I don't think many people who follow TJEd would be open to hearing her viewpoint because of her tone. You shouldn't alienate your audience.
As for TJEd, I have also read much of the materials and thought about the principles and pondered applying them in my homeschool. Eventually I decided against it (even though Julia calls me a closet TJEder) because of the BLATANT DISHONESTY of telling people that their own education is inadequate (playing on all homeschoolers' insecurity about doing the best thing for their children) and that they only way to get an adequate education is to spend lots of money getting a degree from a non-accredited school. Lots of moral self-satisfaction, I suppose, that you now are truly educated, but a complete waste of time and money otherwise. Perhaps Oliver DeMille is a wonderful person, but his "university" is a scam--there just plain isn't a nice way to say it.
I do, however, disagree with Misfit about if something is a lie than it is all bad. Marilyn put it perfectly so I don't need to rehash it. My concern is that the good in TJEd is thought of as TJEd goodness instead of being recognized as obvious good teaching practices (although there are plenty of bad teaching practices put forward as well) that many other people have also advocated. I also get bugged by the cult-like adherence of some of its followers. But again, just because I disagree with some of the teaching practices doesn't mean I have to disregard the obvious good in TJEd--like reading classics and recognizing that small children don't need to be pushed academically.
So . . . my closing remarks. I agreed with some of what Misfit said, but her whole premise--that because Oliver DeMille is a bad person you should avoid TJEd like the plague--is faulty. While I have many concerns about TJEd, her concerns are not mine.
Monday, November 7, 2011
I Agree with Marilyn
I am too lazy to look up the quote, but Brigham Young basically said that whether it be found in heaven or hell, if it is truth, we claim it as our own. The scriptures also say that by their fruits ye shall know them. What are the fruits of TJED? I have personally read TJED, the home companion, leadership education, attended two seminars, listened to a couple of cds, flipped through the kimber curriculum books, and read a couple of books written by people who follow TJED ie A House United by Nicholeen Peck (amazing!) and The Other Eminent Men of Wilford Woodruff. Every single one of these books I felt the spirit while I read them and found amazing things in them that have improved my life. Also, every single woman that I know who is following TJED is reading classics and writing, improving their education, trying harder to be better mothers, getting involved in politics to promote freedom by returning to the constitution, becoming more self sufficient through gardening, food storage, learning skills like weaving, sewing, etc. and trying to become debt free. All of these things are GOOD. These fruits say to me that TJED is not evil. This lady is crazy. Also, since when did making money become and evil thing? Dave Ramsey said on his radio show that people tend to see money like a pie--they think there is only so much to go around. He says money is more like a river--the more there is the farther is flows and the more people's lives it touches. Entrepreneurship is a good thing!
Misfit
Marilyn,
Your thoughts echo my own. I've been reading Misfit Cygnet for awhile. I have gotten so frustrated that I've sworn off reading her...but then I relent and check back in, and find that she's written something that I so totally agree with that I keep on reading. My husband and I both follow her blog. We are either really annoyed with her attitude (you're right in that what she calls satire is NOT satire - it's self-righteous condemnation a lot of times), find her totally thought-provoking although we disagree, or actually (surprisingly!!) agree with her. It definitely varies.
As for TJEd, I thought she had some valid points to make. As someone who's done quite a bit to research, attended a couple of their seminars, read a few of the books (but definitely not all), and knows some people personally who were peripherally and directly associated with the George Wythe College/University (one was a teacher there), I can tell you that she's not all wrong. They do have some problems. They are trying to make money off of this. A lot of the "educational truths" here are for income, in my opinion. I don't know that they are being dishonest on purpose. The blog post she references about George Wythe defrauding a lady out of money is not entirely accurate. If you continue on the blog she cites, and read through the comments, there is more information to give a better picture. I don't think she read the comments - or else she went looking for information and only saw what she wanted to see.
I thought her post about BYU Football was lame. I thought her post about problems in our youth program were fairly accurate.
As for TJEd...I think people who adhere to it are a little too...I don't know how to say...strict in their adherence? They equate TJEd truthfulness with Gospel truthfulness and act as though they are one and the same. They are not.
Misfit's very judgmental. I don't know how she can stand to live in a world with so many sinners, actually. :-) But sometimes she judges correctly (in my opinion). Sometimes I think she skirts the line of apostasy...kind of like her ranting about ESPN when you know it had to be approved by at least some of the Brethren. Either that, or they leave people to govern themselves and are willing to take the consequences of that - however it plays out for the Lord's University. They never have said that they wouldn't have to approve this stuff if only we could live a higher, football-free law. I think she makes weird assumptions sometimes. I'm not a huge football fan - I enjoy an occasional game because it's fun. But I don't think it's evil, nor do I think that all football players are fornicating drunkards. One of my good friends quarterbacked for BYU and I KNOW he wasn't. But she considers them all evil.
But we're talking about TJEd. I think there is some good there. I have taken what I have found to be beneficial to my family and used it. It's huge in Utah - particularly among the Utah County homeschoolers (largest base, I think), and so I think she comes up against it a LOT...people who think it's the One, True Way to homeschool. That would be frustrating.
As for her post, she included a link that talks about the hebraic way of educating...THAT was interesting reading!
Your thoughts echo my own. I've been reading Misfit Cygnet for awhile. I have gotten so frustrated that I've sworn off reading her...but then I relent and check back in, and find that she's written something that I so totally agree with that I keep on reading. My husband and I both follow her blog. We are either really annoyed with her attitude (you're right in that what she calls satire is NOT satire - it's self-righteous condemnation a lot of times), find her totally thought-provoking although we disagree, or actually (surprisingly!!) agree with her. It definitely varies.
As for TJEd, I thought she had some valid points to make. As someone who's done quite a bit to research, attended a couple of their seminars, read a few of the books (but definitely not all), and knows some people personally who were peripherally and directly associated with the George Wythe College/University (one was a teacher there), I can tell you that she's not all wrong. They do have some problems. They are trying to make money off of this. A lot of the "educational truths" here are for income, in my opinion. I don't know that they are being dishonest on purpose. The blog post she references about George Wythe defrauding a lady out of money is not entirely accurate. If you continue on the blog she cites, and read through the comments, there is more information to give a better picture. I don't think she read the comments - or else she went looking for information and only saw what she wanted to see.
I thought her post about BYU Football was lame. I thought her post about problems in our youth program were fairly accurate.
As for TJEd...I think people who adhere to it are a little too...I don't know how to say...strict in their adherence? They equate TJEd truthfulness with Gospel truthfulness and act as though they are one and the same. They are not.
Misfit's very judgmental. I don't know how she can stand to live in a world with so many sinners, actually. :-) But sometimes she judges correctly (in my opinion). Sometimes I think she skirts the line of apostasy...kind of like her ranting about ESPN when you know it had to be approved by at least some of the Brethren. Either that, or they leave people to govern themselves and are willing to take the consequences of that - however it plays out for the Lord's University. They never have said that they wouldn't have to approve this stuff if only we could live a higher, football-free law. I think she makes weird assumptions sometimes. I'm not a huge football fan - I enjoy an occasional game because it's fun. But I don't think it's evil, nor do I think that all football players are fornicating drunkards. One of my good friends quarterbacked for BYU and I KNOW he wasn't. But she considers them all evil.
But we're talking about TJEd. I think there is some good there. I have taken what I have found to be beneficial to my family and used it. It's huge in Utah - particularly among the Utah County homeschoolers (largest base, I think), and so I think she comes up against it a LOT...people who think it's the One, True Way to homeschool. That would be frustrating.
As for her post, she included a link that talks about the hebraic way of educating...THAT was interesting reading!
and a postscript
Ok, I've spent a long time reading some other posts on that lady's site, and now I'm confused. I am still often bothered by her writing and her tone. She calls it "satire" but I find nothing witty or ironic in it---just heavy-handed and didactic instruction from what appears to be her lofty perch of "I-know-better-than-you." But . . . then there are posts I totally agree with, think are well-written, and admire her thought process in. And there are still others where I find I am nearly identical to her in practical application---i.e. our family behaves much as hers does---but for drastically different reasons. So I really don't know what to make of her. I guess I can take the good and just pass over (what I think is) the bad---much as we are supposed to do with anything we read---and which is the whole reason I disagree with her assertion that we should avoid TJEd like the plague. :) What do you ladies think?
I am annoyed
Okay, Marilyn here spouting off about something I know nothing about . . . forgive me . . . but you did ask . . . :) So as I recall, this is the same lady who wrote about how cheering for basketball player Brandon Davies is the same thing as cheering for fornication (or something)---and she lost all credibility for me then. I don't home school and I haven't even READ "TJEd" but her tone really rubs me the wrong way, as it has in other posts she's written. She reprimands other people for not being "orthodox" enough, basically, and calls them out for various "deviations" from her idea of "the true way"--- whether it's not listening to the spirit in choosing education, daring to find any value in words from a "liar," finding something to commend in a person who says they're sorry, etc. etc. etc. Excuse all the scare quotes, but as I said, this really annoys me. Even though I find validity in some things she says, her know-it-all-posing-as-'oh-yes-please-disagree-with-me-because-it-shows-independent-thought'" attitude seems to me the opposite of an honest seeker of truth. She asks for thoughtful comments and then administers a gospel-catchphrase-filled beatdown of anyone that disagrees, disregarding any spiritual promptings they claim to have felt as "deception from the devil." She seems to enjoy her position as the one who "stirs things up", seeing herself as some sort of modern-day Cassandra, but I think it's actually pretty easy to offend people in the name of "telling it like it is", and I don't find her particularly thought-provoking. I also take issue with her cavalier labeling of "apostates" "liars" etc.---as if she is the ultimate judge of such things---and then her argument to anyone who says contrary: "Don't blame me! I'm just telling it like it is! Your anger is proof of my correctness!"
Grrrrr. Furthermore, I disagree with her fundamental premise in this post: i.e. that if something "comes from a liar," it is fundamentally flawed and no part of it can be good. Since when did perfection (or even righteousness) in the messenger become a requirement for a true message? Dickens, Moliere, Dostoevsky, and thousands more would---by her measure---be unfit for reading and we couldn't learn anything from them. Who cares if the TJEd guy told a lie (or in her words, "is a liar"); I don't think that means that everything he then teaches from thenceforth should be discarded lock, stock and barrel. Has she ever read the Doctrine & Covenants? How about section 91 on the Apocrypha:
There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;
Grrrrr. Furthermore, I disagree with her fundamental premise in this post: i.e. that if something "comes from a liar," it is fundamentally flawed and no part of it can be good. Since when did perfection (or even righteousness) in the messenger become a requirement for a true message? Dickens, Moliere, Dostoevsky, and thousands more would---by her measure---be unfit for reading and we couldn't learn anything from them. Who cares if the TJEd guy told a lie (or in her words, "is a liar"); I don't think that means that everything he then teaches from thenceforth should be discarded lock, stock and barrel. Has she ever read the Doctrine & Covenants? How about section 91 on the Apocrypha:
There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;
There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are ainterpolations by the hands of men. . . Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him aunderstand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; And whoso is enlightened by the aSpirit shall obtain benefit therefrom.
So, here we have something which by God's own words contains "MANY THINGS THAT ARE NOT TRUE"---and yet we are told we can benefit from it through the spirit's enlightenment. So I guess while I shouldn't really have a dog in this fight, not having even read the dang book as I've said---still, I'm going to be on the opposite side of anyone who thinks we have to be perfect before we can bring something true or beautiful into the world. I don't think we have to do a character analysis of the author of everything we read---we can read their ideas and judge them on their own merits, take what is good, discard what is bad, just as we are supposed to do IN EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES! Oh, and yeah, I hate MLM too, but again I don't think that qualifies me to set myself up as a judge of everyone who has participated in it. I have no doubt some of them are deceptive and maybe some even defraud others but that's no reason to tar a huge swath of people with the same brush.
Ahem. Please forgive me if I've been too hasty. I don't read this lady's blog often (as I said, I encountered that Brandon Davies post and immediately dismissed her as someone so far from me in opinion that I could never enjoy reading her) so perhaps I am unfair. And for all I know her specific TJEd criticisms have some basis in truth. It's her tone and her attitude I take issue with (and yes, also her writing style). I look forward to reading your thoughts and please don't hesitate to tell me if I'm totally off-base here; these are simply my gut reactions!
Thomas Jefferson Education
Hello Folks!
I've discussed this blog post with Kelly already and then Andrea suggested we make it a discussion topic on this blog! I'm sure there is plenty we can all say about it...and I'd love to sort through my own feelings on the topic as well. So everyone please read and we can discuss! :-)
LOL
JULIA
I've discussed this blog post with Kelly already and then Andrea suggested we make it a discussion topic on this blog! I'm sure there is plenty we can all say about it...and I'd love to sort through my own feelings on the topic as well. So everyone please read and we can discuss! :-)
LOL
JULIA
Tuesday, October 11, 2011
Shinichi Suzuki
I've been studying up on the Suzuki music method out of curiosity...I hear so much about it but I never really knew much. I found some books online that were either about him, or written by him, but our library only had one - so that's what I've been reading. Utterly fascinating. The book is: "Ability Development From Age Zero".
Sadly, I forgot until I was almost done reading to put page numbers by my quotes...don't know what I was thinking.
** Have children give a weekly (musical) performance for Dad and family. Have Dad clap! Dad should request another performance the following week. (This is to motivate your young children to keep practicing.)
**"The ability to concentrate for long periods of time can be nurtured". Start by presenting fun tasks which he can do.
How to teach your child a skill
1. Begin as early as possible
2. Create the best possible environmnet
3. Use the finest teaching method
4. Provide a great deal of training
5. Use the finest teachers
** Daily pray for your child
"A prayer is when you whisper the hopes of your heart".
"The real heart of a parent is prayerful".
** "Watch the actions you inspire in your child through your attitude. Respect them. Speak pleasantly" (as you would someone else's kid).
** "The heart that feels music will feel people. If we listen to the music of Bach or Mozart, we can feel the hearts of Bach and Mozart in their music. Maybe at first only the melody is understood, but after continuous listening it is possible to understand all of the religious, sensitive, overpowering personality of Bach...This is the beauty and wonder of music".
** "I have concluded that anger is unnecessary in human life. Practice not being angry instead of developing an ability for anger".
** "If a child is brought up to have a beautiful heart and wonderful abilities, with love for others and the happiness of being loved, then the mission of a parent is ended. The way (to make a living) will open up for the child later. Parents need not worry whether or not their child will succeed".
** "Having great ability means having a deep and great ability of the heart". (regarding musical ability specifically) pg 59
** "We do not have to become professional musicians...If, as a person works at playing the violin well, he develops the talent to overcome any difficult problem by working, then the talent will be born to accomplish even the hardest problems easily." pg 62
** "A real meaning of sophistication is to be sensitive to another person's feelings, and have respect for their point of view". pg 63
Later, Suzuki talks about the importance of parents in education and how it is ultimately their responsibility. He thinks it is stupid when a school asks parents for their cooperation. He said that is backwards...the parents should be asking the school for their cooperation in the education of their children.
Some of the things that I didn't agree with Suzuki about -
From what I can tell, he pretty much goes with the Tabula Rasa view of children and says that it is mainly environment that shapes their later proclivities. He says you can't say that a five year old has a "gift" for music without taking into consideration the experiences that they have had for the five years leading up to the discovery of this gift. While I agree that children can be taught many things and talents can be developed (not every talent has to be inherent from birth) - I do think that we come to earth with different personality traits and talents already part of us. He applies this same theory to raising a good child - it's all based on how the parent interacts with their child that will determine what sort of adult the child turns out to be. While I don't agree with his underlying assumption, the way he describes we should interact with our children was interesting and made me feel like I could use some more work on the subject.
He gives an interesting example in how our attitudes shape our children:
If the mother says, "Take a bath while the water is still hot", she is more likely to be obeyed than if she says, "The water is hot, so hurry up and take a bath, or else!".
Ok. I get it. Stop being grumpy. ;-) I'm trying!!!
And while I'm on the blog. It is in my memory that someone here (one of Andrea's sisters????) is currently living in Switzerland. Is that right? Because I'd like to speak at them. ;-) My husband, sister, brother-in-law, and my parents are going to be in Interlaken for a week next summer. We're staying at the Hotel Victoria-Jungfrou. I'm wondering if you have any tips for traveling, must-see's, etc. None of us speak German, and I'm hoping that won't be a problem. I'd also like to see the Swiss Temple if we have time, and I'm wondering how far away that is and what the best way to travel there might be.
Sadly, I forgot until I was almost done reading to put page numbers by my quotes...don't know what I was thinking.
** Have children give a weekly (musical) performance for Dad and family. Have Dad clap! Dad should request another performance the following week. (This is to motivate your young children to keep practicing.)
**"The ability to concentrate for long periods of time can be nurtured". Start by presenting fun tasks which he can do.
How to teach your child a skill
1. Begin as early as possible
2. Create the best possible environmnet
3. Use the finest teaching method
4. Provide a great deal of training
5. Use the finest teachers
** Daily pray for your child
"A prayer is when you whisper the hopes of your heart".
"The real heart of a parent is prayerful".
** "Watch the actions you inspire in your child through your attitude. Respect them. Speak pleasantly" (as you would someone else's kid).
** "The heart that feels music will feel people. If we listen to the music of Bach or Mozart, we can feel the hearts of Bach and Mozart in their music. Maybe at first only the melody is understood, but after continuous listening it is possible to understand all of the religious, sensitive, overpowering personality of Bach...This is the beauty and wonder of music".
** "I have concluded that anger is unnecessary in human life. Practice not being angry instead of developing an ability for anger".
** "If a child is brought up to have a beautiful heart and wonderful abilities, with love for others and the happiness of being loved, then the mission of a parent is ended. The way (to make a living) will open up for the child later. Parents need not worry whether or not their child will succeed".
** "Having great ability means having a deep and great ability of the heart". (regarding musical ability specifically) pg 59
** "We do not have to become professional musicians...If, as a person works at playing the violin well, he develops the talent to overcome any difficult problem by working, then the talent will be born to accomplish even the hardest problems easily." pg 62
** "A real meaning of sophistication is to be sensitive to another person's feelings, and have respect for their point of view". pg 63
Later, Suzuki talks about the importance of parents in education and how it is ultimately their responsibility. He thinks it is stupid when a school asks parents for their cooperation. He said that is backwards...the parents should be asking the school for their cooperation in the education of their children.
Some of the things that I didn't agree with Suzuki about -
From what I can tell, he pretty much goes with the Tabula Rasa view of children and says that it is mainly environment that shapes their later proclivities. He says you can't say that a five year old has a "gift" for music without taking into consideration the experiences that they have had for the five years leading up to the discovery of this gift. While I agree that children can be taught many things and talents can be developed (not every talent has to be inherent from birth) - I do think that we come to earth with different personality traits and talents already part of us. He applies this same theory to raising a good child - it's all based on how the parent interacts with their child that will determine what sort of adult the child turns out to be. While I don't agree with his underlying assumption, the way he describes we should interact with our children was interesting and made me feel like I could use some more work on the subject.
He gives an interesting example in how our attitudes shape our children:
If the mother says, "Take a bath while the water is still hot", she is more likely to be obeyed than if she says, "The water is hot, so hurry up and take a bath, or else!".
Ok. I get it. Stop being grumpy. ;-) I'm trying!!!
And while I'm on the blog. It is in my memory that someone here (one of Andrea's sisters????) is currently living in Switzerland. Is that right? Because I'd like to speak at them. ;-) My husband, sister, brother-in-law, and my parents are going to be in Interlaken for a week next summer. We're staying at the Hotel Victoria-Jungfrou. I'm wondering if you have any tips for traveling, must-see's, etc. None of us speak German, and I'm hoping that won't be a problem. I'd also like to see the Swiss Temple if we have time, and I'm wondering how far away that is and what the best way to travel there might be.
Thursday, August 18, 2011
The Virginian
Has anyone read this book? If not, you MUST read it. It is a fabulous, classic western love story. I loved it. I was going to post some of my favorite lines but I just leant the book to a friend, so I'll have to wait until I get it back. Anyway... read it! JULIA
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
