An Education

Reads

2012-01-25T14:27:00.001-06:00

Sister Beck gave a recent BYU devotional called "Why We are Organized into Quorums and Relief Societies".
http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=2012

I have only gotten through part of it, but thought I'd share. Sister Beck is so awesome.

Oh, funny story. I was doing research for my YW lesson about receiving inspiration from the Holy Ghost and one of the talks that came up on my radar was Sister Beck's talk from April 2010 Conference. Wonderful talk, by the way. Anyway, the ideas in it were almost exactly what she expressed to the region when she came to California in October and spoke to us. Before she started her talk in October, she asked women to share any questions that they had for her. Those that spoke all told sad stories about personal challenges and seemed to be asking her what they should do about their problems {edited to add that I don't want to sound unfeeling - they really were sad stories}. Her reply was a talk on receiving personal revelation - exactly what she spoke on in that April Conference. I was thinking - surely it must be frustrating to our leaders to feel like they are TALKING and no one is LISTENING. Sister Beck could have said "go read my conference talk - you'll find all you need to know in there". But she didn't.

Just a little personal reminder to myself to READ and ACT and then go back and re-read and study and, well, stop bugging the Lord to fix my problems when he's probably already provided the answer in one form or another. Maybe a better plea would be to ask the Lord to help me find and recognize the answer from the counsel we've already received.
:-)

Hope you are all having a pleasant January. I am up to my eyeballs in New Beginnings (happens tonight). The President that I serve under, and I, have never been to one EVER! We did something totally fun, though. The Bishop gave us permission (and then went and did the work for us) to screw hooks into corners of the wall so that we could put pretty lights across the ceiling. The girls are going to be so amazed because that is one thing that has never been done in our ward. Should make it a little bit like a fairyland - it reminds me of every wedding reception I've ever been to in a church building. ;-) The lovely part of being in this particular small ward is that people have very low expectations!

Oh, just read a fascinating book that my husband had recommended to him called "Donbas: A True Story of an Escape Across Russia". It's a very quick read and not too heavy or intense, especially considering the subject matter. This autobiography is a tale of a 15 year old Romanian kid who was captured at the end of WWII and sent to Russia to be a slave in their coal mines...and what happens from there.

Modesty

2012-01-16T14:39:00.000-06:00

Kelly, loved the misfit post on modesty. I have said many of the same things--especially about the trend toward stores that claim modesty while selling flagrantly immodest items. Drives me nuts. The only thing I wasn't sure about was the heels. I love my heels. On the other hand, it might be a definition thing. I don't wear stilettos. I also don't wear super high heels. Definitely higher than pumps, however. I also think it is ridiculous when YW wear heels. Looks ridiculous--and definitely draws attention. Whether I would go so far as to say they are dressing immodestly . . . I will think about that more.

The post I would write about modesty would focus a lot less on the actual clothes and more on the attitudes and feelings going into wearing the clothes. Yes, a large part of that is competition. Why do we need to compete? Another large part of that is wanting to feel attractive--especially after reproducing when our bodies aren't quite what they used to be. So maybe some fountain of youth might be going on there. Maybe it is because we don't really have a testimony of motherhood. Maybe it is because we're worried our husbands don't have a testimony of motherhood? Maybe it is just because we're surrounded by billboards advertising liposuction?

Any thoughts?

FYI--I come at this from a position of someone who USED TO BE supremely confident in her looks/abilities/everything and then, somehow, lost a lot of that confidence. Why does that happen? Does it happen to most women? I know the article Julia linked touched on it--but her suggestions were no-brainers; dress nicely, do your hair--stuff our moms all taught us. But if you dress neatly, comb your hair, put on make-up and have a hot, tasty meal on the table when your hubby walks in the door and you STILL feel not-good-enough--what then?

books galore

2012-01-16T09:20:00.000-06:00

Those books sound interesting. I, however, will not be reading anything this month that I cannot get from the library or read for free online. The Run With Me book looks good, but my library system is apparently not carrying it. I've got Playful Parenting on hold, but it will be awhile before it comes.

I have recently read "Playful Learning: Develop your Child's Sense of Joy and Wonder" by Mariah Bruehl. It was okay. A couple good ideas that I hadn't hit on before. It was very Montessori-ish. One idea that I thought you'd love is the idea of making little blank books to keep around the house to stimulate your child's interest in writing and art. I made a stack of books by cutting computer paper in half, folding in half, putting a plain cardstock cover on, and stapling, then doing the same thing with some whole sheets. I have a bunch and put them on a shelf on my desk and told the kids they were theirs to do with as they pleased. Logan, who usually never wants to draw or write, jumped up and did a whole series of pictures. We'll see how popular they are, but they sure looked cute. They were so easy to make and made me feel like SUCH a good, nurturing, crafty mother. Sigh.

Also recently read a talk by Julie B. Beck called "Nourishing and Protecting Our Families" that she gave at the 2009 BYU Women's Conference. If you google it, it's easy to find. A GEM of a talk, as all of hers seem to be.

And I'm fighting my way through the second half of Ken Robinson's book "The Element". The first half was quick and fascinating and managed to both thrill me and make me feel like a complete loser as an inspiring parent and creative individual. The second half is making me feel better, but I've either lost interest in the topic, or it's just dragging on too long for one book.

I'd love reading suggestions for the year. I haven't given it hardly any thought, but I really like having a booklist to work from when I'm placing holds in the library site. I need some GOOD books to be coming in every couple weeks or I get bored.

finally, I know we're basically over Misfit here, but she wrote a great post on modesty that Josh and I really liked if you're interested. I kept her blog on my google reader and I think this is the first time she's posted since the last time we talked.

Thanks ladies! Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas.

Oh yes, Andrea, is your sister still in Switzerland? I have a couple questions to ask her about train travel. I'm a bit confused about the various rail passes that I've been reading about in the travel books and what the difference is. If she wouldn't mind hearing from me, and you wouldn't mind passing on my email address, I would appreciate it. kelosh 2 at gmail dot com. Thanks so much!

books to read

2012-01-11T00:39:00.000-06:00

Increase in Learning by Elder Bednar - I have this one sitting by my bed ready to read (Christmas present). I think it's more of a slow study though, not really a read quick and discuss type book. ?? I'm excited to get into it though.
Raising up a family to the Lord. - - One of my most favorite parenting books! A MUST read. I don't think I'll read it again right now, but I will join in the discussion. Powerful principles in that book!

Soft-Spoken Parenting - this one might be interesting...always needed. :-)
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I, for one, would also love to re-read Notwithstanding my Weakness by Elder Maxwell (I know, I've been pushing this one for awhile, but it really is GREAT and I need to re-learn some things).

Also interested in reading and discussing The Divine Center by Steven R. Covey

And, the greatest book I just read was Do Hard Things by ? & Alex Harris (Two 19-yr old homeschooled Christian twins). I'm actually having my 12 yr. old read it right now. It's great.

Just my two cents.

Books

2012-01-11T00:14:00.003-06:00

Hey guys,

I'm checking out some books at the library and was curious if any of you were interested in reading them.

Run With Me: An Accidental Runner and the Power of Poo

I'm much too lazy to fix the formatting.

Increase in Learning by Elder Bednar

Or Playful Parenting: A Bold New Way to Nurture Close Connections.

Raising up a family to the Lord.

Soft-Spoken Parenting.

New Favorite

2011-11-29T14:56:00.001-06:00

http://ourmothersdaughters.blogspot.com/2011/11/ask-auntie-leila-five-steps-to-feeling.html

This is a post worth talking about!

Book suggestions

2011-11-28T23:27:00.000-06:00

I like Kelly's idea to get back to the original meaning of this blog/chat group. I want to read and discuss great ideas again! I suggest we start with Notwithstanding My Weakness by Elder Maxwell. OR Spiritual Lightening by M. Catherine Thomas. OR The Lonesome Gods (because I'm reading it right now and dying to discuss it all with someone...so good!). OR Whatever anyone else wants to read right now. OR we could take a chapter each month from the new RS book and discuss it. That might be fun,too. Okay...enough of my ideas. LOL

Misfit and other things

2011-11-18T08:44:00.000-06:00

I happen to have a little extra time this week, so I'm going to go ahead and write a little about this post. But then I think it would be nice (and I think it's time) to leave Misfit for awhile and talk about something else. I'd love to read a book from our list again. I know the holidays and busyness are coming up, but if we schedule a due date of mid-January??? What do you all think of that?

Before I get to this particular Misfit post, I want to tell you something. Last night I was at the stake leadership training for YW and the camp director was there to make the first announcement for girls camp next summer. And she said, I kid you not, "our theme this year is 'Who Am I' from Dr. Suess". I just about died - that was the LAST thing I was expecting. Grrrrr. And a bunch of women went, "ahhhh, cute!" Lucky for me, I have an in with a member of the stake presidency, so on the way home last night I had a serious complaint session with Josh about the inappropriateness of that theme. I knew he would agree with me, but I'm hoping that he'll really push the Stake President to make them change it. He said that his understanding is that they let the girls choose it - those girls who are going for their last year, who basically run camp. I'm going to keep making a fuss about it, because I think that's ridiculous, and I think a better example should be shown to the Young Women about what the focus of Camp is. And i think they should have gotten it approved before they announced it.

On to Misfit. I'll be brief.
First, I think Twilight is lame. I'm disappointed in Stephenie Meyers interpretation of a "chaste" relationship that goes against all counsel by our leaders. I think Mormons get over-excited about having "one of us" go mainstream and assume anything written by a fellow Mormon is quality. Blech. It's not. Much as I like Orson Scott Card's books, they disappoint me also - I can't help wondering if he really thinks the Savior would approve his use of strong language. Shannon Hale, a favorite author, also wrote a book, "The Actor and the Housewife", that goes against my feelings of what is an appropriate relationship for a married woman with a member of the opposite sex. Let's be real. She should never put herself in that position - no matter how "platonic" that relationship is. Lame.

Second - on the photography thing. It's absolutely a disgusting business. I'm making no comments on what people do in the privacy of their own home, but as a business I think it's inappropriate. I do know from one of the current matron's assistants at the Oakland temple that inappropriate dress has long been a problem at the weddings there. She said it is far too often the mother of the bride who is pushing the boundaries of what's acceptable and right. So there you have it.

Anyway, I'm off to be a productive wife and mother. I hope. ;-)

Sum Up and New Assignment

2011-11-13T21:14:00.002-06:00

To sum up: we think, in general, that YM and YW is not where testimony is found but a place for social interaction with other youth. We also feel, in general, that a lot of service should take place in our youth programs and that we should try to maintain the highest possible standards at all youth events. We also feel, in general, that a few over-the-top youth speakers are a good thing because adolescents are primarily emotional beings and that is what reaches them.

I feel like I am laying down the parameters of a new organization or something. My recap leaves much to be desired. Thanks for all the thoughtful responses--it gave me a lot to think about.

Here's the next assignment. Read this and comment.

Oh, a few comments I forgot

2011-11-11T18:05:00.002-06:00

Scouting: I think Mother's force their children in most things they do, Personal Progress, Faith in God, Scouting, everything--it just takes more work with teenage boys. I think the Scout program is a good program, but I had friends that exemplified the best of it--they weren't overboard wackos but they really worked and learned to get their Eagle Scouts. (Thomas N. and Matthew F. for example). I hope my boys are like that.

Time out for Women: Gag--my friend payed for me to go to one and it was lame. Maybe because I had bronchitis at the time. But still my overall impression was that it was lame.

And that's all I can remember right now that I forgot.

Introducing Natalie my neighbor

2011-11-11T16:15:00.002-06:00

Natalie summed it up much better than I did in all my ramblings. So I made her come write it down.

Activities associated with the church that are more for entertainment than learning definitely have their place. There is something to be said for building positive, uplifting, emotional experiences that are closely connected to the gospel.

And that in short was her opinion, (which I share) based on the limited amount of info that I told her from all these discussions.

Hmmm.....

2011-11-11T14:19:00.008-06:00

I am currently ignoring the dishes on the table, the laundry, the mending, my homework, etc., to respond. I skimmed through the Youth post by what's her name freaky lady, and then skimmed through the bulk of your responses. But I really have to make this brief. Here's my opinion.

EFY: Went, loved it, would definitely send my kids. However, I wouldn't expect much more than a fun camp. EFY is not responsible for teaching my kids the gospel, but why not EFY instead of band camp, or science camp, or other youth camp program?

Music: I can't stand Christian music of any sorts (except maybe instrumental hymns). My brain almost rotted out of my head in Florida where Christian music made up a 1/3 of all the stations. I feel the same way about listening to Delilah. Or any preachy, annoying person on the radio. Like umm, Glenn Beck. Ugghhh. I can't stand country either though, since 9/11. Too much "America is the Universe" type songs. Basically, give me Smashing Pumpkins and Weezer any day. I guess I'm heretical according to Pyshco-lady. I will say though, I don't listen to most contemporary pop music either, I can't even tell you one Beiber song. And while it was cute to hear Elena sing, "Shake, Shake, Shake!" (Metro Station) to the radio, I never downloaded it and added it to our CD music because of the lyrics, and I find much of pop music inappropriate.

John Bytheway, Deseret Book, and the like: Funny once in a while, I've never really liked that sort of a thing much. Deseret Book in it's entirety I've always thought was a bit overwhelming and Andrea and I have long disparaged their authors, like Anita Stansfield etc, but I also don't like Janette Oke, or any books like that at all really--so is it really Deseret Book, or is it I simply would prefer to read nonfiction books about lost cities in the Amazon? And if John Bytheway can get through to even a few teens, then what's the harm? I love Brad Wilcox's books about maturation and I use it to teach my children and his talk is the one talk I remember from EFY.

Facebook: I am friends with a few of Leo's YM from back in the day in Chicago, and yes they post hugely inappropriate things, however, I don't find that at all surprising as only two of the YM in our ward were allowed to take the sacrament and they were deacons at the time. I personally just don't want to know that much about the youth's lives and most posts are song lyrics or stupidity. I only have so much time to waste.

Youth Conferences: I only remember two, one was lame, the other fun (temple trip to Cardston from ND). Again I feel the same way about them as EFY, socializing is a good thing when you're out in the sticks like ND. I had a blast at all our stake activities. But then there were only about 45 youth and no really big cliques (how could there be in a stake that small?) Did I have spiritual experiences there? Not that I recall, although again, I don't think YC should be where I gain my testimony. It did help uplift me and support me to just go out and have friends with common beliefs, which is basically what I think Relief Society does for me now.

Girls Camp and Testimony meeting: One particular girls camp, the leaders had us all gather and told us that Ogden and Hill Air Force Base had been bombed and they weren't sure if our parents were okay...etc. We all knew it wasn't true, but there were still girls bawling and carrying on, and we were supposed to write letters to our families, and well, Amanda C. (remember Ands, she was bit of a goth) and Rachel (Ands -your cousin) and I sat snickering away in a corner. And basically were glared at the whole time by our leaders. I was 13 or 14 at the time. I'm telling this story to simply to make the point that I've never been the type of girl to bawl hysterically in that type of situation (okay, Andrea, I know I bawl hysterically fairly regularly but not in those situations). I think the most impressive testimony I ever heard at girls camp was a girl who said she wasn't sure if she had a testimony, but she was trying to find out (her honesty impressed me--because I felt the same but didn't have the courage to say it). I either avoided bearing my testimony or simply said something short and to the point. But I know a lot of girls who really seemed to find it all inspiring and faith building.

And now on to YM and YW's in general: I don't know what to say. My experiences are very varied. Personally, in YW's I was always jealous of the YM who seemed to get to do more--hiking, camping, ACTIVE things. I didn't have a bad time in YW's though. Leo was in the YM's presidency in Chicago and only 3 YM came, and the rest were on drugs (literally) and had serious immorality issues. But this is where I'd like to know more about Ms Psycho-lady's study and statistics. Where are those statistics from? The whole church? The US? Utah? I just skimmed so maybe I missed it, but that makes a big difference. Our ward was a Spanish speaking ward in Chicago and entirely composed of converts, who were mostly illegal immigrants, and lived in brutal neighborhoods. I'm amazed even three YM came. (See, this is where demographics come in, the Hispanic population across the US is booming, also baptismal rates for Hispanics is also very high--yet Hispanic culture in many ways is at odds with Mormon values of modesty and strict following the rules. It's more like mañana, mañana and dotting the i's doesn't matter. It's going to take a while, probably a few generations for that to change. But I think it will.)

As for my experience here in Provo as a YW leader, well again, it was the Spanish ward, mostly illegal immigrants, mostly converts, and yes, we had huge issues with our YW (16 and under, older than that they didn't come anymore) with immorality, modesty, etc. However, have you taken a recent gander at Latin culture? The girls were horribly immodest but dressed pretty much the same as their culture at large, and like I said, most of these girls were converts, it takes a while most of the time for principles to sink in, especially when the mother's dressed the same. And as for a huge budget, we had $600 for the entire year, YC and YW's camp included. The YM had $300. Ummm, overspending was not our problem. And painting fingernails did result in our biggest turnout for a weekday activity. Good or bad? At least they were there and not at their boyfriends' houses.

So, what did I teach or plan for activities? First, I tried to get the president to actually have a meeting once a month to plan activities. That took several months. Then yes, we catered to the girls to try to get them to come while throwing in a activity from the YW Personal Progress on the side, so that maybe they might think about accomplishing something useful.

Lessons on Sunday were much better, when I just had the MiaMaids (2 sisters made up my class), I was entirely frank with them ALL the time. Basically, you have to know the gospel is true or none of it matters. They'd ask me deeper questions sometimes and I always took the time to discuss with them what I knew or what I didn't know, no matter what the topic was. That's what I wanted as a teenager. I also think that those girls are already making huge decisions in their lives (relationship-wise anyway) so I think they ought to be treated like adults and given more, not less information. (I know this is somewhat contradictory, I mean, they are being irresponsible, but still those decisions they're making will affect them forever, so why treat them as children? If they chose to do things which are adult in nature, they should be treated as adults.) Which is a point that carries across to all YM and YW, I think we don't give them enough information. And how can we expect any depth of learning to occur if all we ever do is cake walk around things??

I've actually been thinking of this article lately. And it really bothers me. Basically it talks about how the new adult age is 22-25 not 18 or so like it used to be. Really??? What a bunch of babies. That's my inflammatory rhetoric for the day.

Here's my plan for raising my kids. I'm going to move to Argentina, put my kids in a private Catholic school, and tell them that they belong to the only true church and that they need to act according to it's teachings, and not misbehave and ruin the example they could set for all their Catholic friends and nuns and such, and thus force them to stand out and stand up for their beliefs. Hee. Hee. Okay, maybe that's a bit extreme, but honestly, my biggest fear for my children is not if they paint fingernails every week in YW's but solely that they'll be sheep and just follow trends and friends, in or out of the church.

And now that I've spent two hours here with very poor grammar and probably didn't make any sense, I need to go do some work. Chao, amigas.

couple more thoughts

2011-11-10T23:13:00.001-06:00

re: facebook---I don't really use facebook (I have an account and accept friend requests etc., but don't go on there much---mostly because it was causing me to dislike/lose respect for a lot of people I had otherwise liked; people write stupid things on facebook! :)) and haven't interacted with the YW on there. I don't really see a need for it. However, texting is something I've used with the YW pretty often. I didn't have texting on my phone and had rarely if ever used it before this calling, but now I have it and love that way of getting in touch with the YW (those who have their own phones, which isn't all of them). They respond fast and it's easy.

re: not telling them they are "the greatest generation"---totally agree, in fact I gave a lesson recently on how they aren't the greatest generation. :) Not in those exact words (though I did use that as an attention-getter)---but I did talk about the fact that they need to actually BE great, and do BETTER, rather than just think smugly how "chosen" and special they are. I also gave a lesson after camp about how spiritual experiences mean nothing if we don't follow them up with action (I referenced the talk by Elder Holland, "Cast not away therefore your confidence"---awesome talk) and how often after times of emotional/spiritual high, we can experience temptation and trial which we need to get through by ACTING on what we felt and were prompted to do. Oh yes, and all of us have the girls call us by "Sister ___"---that's a rule from our bishop anyway, but I endorse it! So I guess I am on the same wavelength as some of you. You may now send all your wonderful daughters to be in my YW group. :) I really like your Miriam, Andrea; when will she be 12? She's only 8 or 9 maybe?

re: Andrea's comment "My hysterics come from my deep maternal insecurities. What am I doing as a mother to help my children develop testimonies turns into an agonized, "Help me here--it takes a village!!!" Instead of receiving that support I am explaining to my children why the speaker's clothes are not modest and why no, it is definitely not okay to say that, and why are they having a party in primary on the Sabbath????"---I have felt this too. I think I always tend to feel like I'm more competent than other people (prideful, I know; I'm trying to fight it) so I get especially impatient when people seem inefficient or sloppy or lazy or too worldly or whatever. But one more thing that just occurred to me. When I hear stories of other wards' youth programs (like the ones Misfit cites), or other "horror stories" people tell about their ward activites, crazy bishops, etc., I often feel depressed and worried about the future of the church. But with my own wards, even though sometimes I get annoyed with various people or think they are doing things the wrong way (like I think my stake president is kind of weird and he is always coming up with these strange policies, etc.)---I generally don't get that overall depressed/helpless/hopeless feeling. Like, I look around in ward council in my ward now and I feel optimistic, like there is no problem we can't solve together, because I KNOW all these people are there because they love God and want to serve Him and do what's right. I feel like we might individually make mistakes, but we will learn from each other and keep each other in line and the ward will progress. We talk ALL THE TIME in that meeting about how to better share our testimonies, how to become like Zion, how to deepen the YWs' testimonies, bearing powerful testimony as part of our lessons, how to keep our YM firm and make them better missionaries, etc. We're all on that same page. It's just very reassuring and makes me less inclined to panic about the future. So I guess it could be
a.) I have just been lucky to be in exceptionally good wards where the horror stories don't happen, and most ward councils would NOT give me that reassuring feeling
or b.) my wards are pretty typical, and the panic comes when you are hearing about vague, generic "other people" and you don't actually KNOW those people. But if you did know them, you would know their good as well as their bad qualities, so you wouldn't be so horrified. You would think, "Oh that Sister Johnson, I can't believe she thought it was a good idea to have an American Idol party, but she does love the girls and I love the way she makes them see how fun marriage can be" or whatever.
What do you think? Wrong? should I be more alarmist?

Quote

2011-11-10T20:39:00.000-06:00

I have this little thing written on a scrap of paper in my wallet but absolutely no reference...

"Opportunities to serve lead to spiritual experiences, which leads to committed members".

This is supposed to be a reactivation tool, but I think it applies to all ages and stages.

2011-11-10T14:37:00.000-06:00

from kelly If they really want to be there, they will rise up and meet the standard.
Yes! I just wanted to say I agree with this. We don't need to "dumb down" our youth activities for those who may or may not be coming anyway. Love it!

from Andrea The worst part is that with leaders trying so hard to be friends the cliquishness and meanness of the girls escalated rapidly and dramatically.
Thus my fear of Facebook and leaders being "friends" with their youth. For some reason that has bothered me that youth and leaders are "on Facebook" together. Is that weird to anyone else? One leader said they liked it because when a YW doesn't show up she can look on Facebook to see where she was. Why not just ask her? Marilyn, have you seen a benefit with Facebook in your calling? Do you use it? I just wonder.....

from Andrea (I do agree with Misfit that we talk too much about how great our youth is without any great behavior to back it up.)
I recently recognized this in my own home with my almost 12 year old boy (gasp!!!). There comes a time when the youth just start expecting the blessings of being older (entitlement) without having more work and responsibilities to show for the extra blessings they get. They're praised for being amazing when they're just acting with mediocrity. I, too heard how wonderful I was all growing up from leaders and parents I think it created a fear of making mistakes in my life. Thus, I look to the talk by Elder Robbins, What Manner of Men (and Women) Ought Ye to Be when praising my children and raising them with confidence in themselves (not false adoration for being so wonderful and also criticism when they fall below my false expectation as well). I don't know if that makes sense or even applies to what we are saying, but it's what came out of my head just now. :-)

The Spirit

2011-11-09T23:17:00.002-06:00

From Kelly: When it comes to our youth and what we need to do for them, I feel very strongly that doing our part to bring the Spirit to a lesson/activity is what makes the difference. I think as leaders we need to bear real testimonies, not fake ones because the lesson told us to. The kids can tell the difference, and they sit up and take notice. The Spirit is the key.

I think what used to be sufficient in the past (the things that we did as youth) are not necessarily going to be good enough when we raise our kids. Infrequent family and individual scripture study and occasional family home evenings are not going to cut it.

AMEN!!! You said what I was trying to say but failed to say. What we have done in the past will not be sufficient in the future. That's what I feel. I'm just not sure about the implementation part. However, Kelly mentioned bringing the Spirit in with us and it reminded me of something I think is critical. When I was in YW (so glad that torture is over), I had at one point the most remarkable YW's president. She was older, she was single, and she took care of her handicapped brother her whole life. She was amazing. Every single lesson she gave she started and ended with her testimony. Elder Eyring has called us to repentance on this issue saying, something along the lines, that we need to bear testimony more. Not just say "I feel" but say, "I testify." I'm kind of squirrely about it, not being very comfortable with emotions.

Back to the point. This YW president did more to help me strengthen my testimony than any seminary teacher or speaker or anyone besides my mom. Every single Sunday I felt the Spirit. Every single lesson was focused on Christ.

Then she was released and we got a new set of leaders who wanted us to call them by their first names so they wouldn't feel old (blah) and planned fun activities and presented very entertaining lessons on Sunday. It was so depressing. The worst part is that with leaders trying so hard to be friends the cliquishness and meanness of the girls escalated rapidly and dramatically.

Maybe the answer is very simple and Kelly already stated it. Maybe the answer is that we have to be focused on bearing testimony--often, sincerely--and preaching, teaching, and declaring Christ to our youth.

And by not letting the youth call you by your first name. Such a pet peeve of mine. BE THE ADULT. Sorry. Lost control there for a minute.

Marilyn,

Thank you for teaching repentance to your girls. As the "good girl" in church, I found it impossible to talk to my Bishop about a problem I was having even though I knew I should because the leaders and Bishopric heaped so much praise upon my head for being such a good girl that I couldn't burst their bubble. Nobody should be put in that position. Nobody is perfect--especially not the youth!!! (I do agree with Misfit that we talk too much about how great our youth is without any great behavior to back it up.)

Everyone needs to know they can repent.

Sincerely,

:)

YOUTH

2011-11-09T22:48:00.001-06:00

You all pretty much covered everything that I think. I just have a few comments.

First of all, I am surprised at the huge youth budgets. I remember being in a bigger ward and the FIGHT for money that went on every year (and how much money we were getting - wow!). Now in a tiny branch/ward we hardly even turn in receipts because we know the ward budget is minimal. Seeing tithing funds used for non-essentials bothers me.

Misfit's problems with EFY and Youth Conf. are lame. I loved my experiences and consider them as vital. That is where I found out that I wasn't the only one in the world with my beliefs. My stake activities were the monthly times when I didn't feel like a total pariah. Even if socialization was the only thing happening at that event, it was still good for me to be there. Is the music overly emotional? Yes. Did it support me as I went through rough times in high school? Again, yes. Listening to MoTab wasn't cutting it.

Andrea, I totally share your deep concern about us failing our youth in helping them develop their testimonies. In my opinion, it is a HUGE problem. I remember what our young men's program was like when I was in Mutual. Let's see...basketball, basketball...and, oh yes, more basketball. Not really testimony building. Also, remember when the new dance cards/standards came out? Our leaders had a blow up fight in front of us about those. Our young men's president wanted us to pander to the lowest common denominator (which included his son), while the young women's president thought we should aim for the higher standard. Honestly, if we had lowered our standards those kids wouldn't have come anyway. If they really want to be there, they will rise up and meet the standard.

This year at Girls' Camp my husband came back from "testimony" meeting just horrified at the thanktimonies/therapy session that went on. But the Stake President thought it was beautiful. I think he felt like these girls are living so ALONE. So many of them are the only members in their families and they are struggling to live the Gospel in a world that's constantly telling them that they are wrong and that the abusive/alcoholic families that they're from are the best that they can hope for. Sometimes those emotional meetings are what get them through. It might not be ideal, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. Different perspectives.

Do not get me started on the Scouting program, where a man leaves his family one or two weekends a month to help the young men. What about his daughters, small children, and pregnant wife? If that does not interfere directly with family unity and activities, I don’t know what does.

I do think that sometimes Scout Leaders put the program before their families. They should not be giving up vacation time (as my brother in law and my husband have done). It's a support program. Not the be all, end all.

When it comes to our youth and what we need to do for them, I feel very strongly that doing our part to bring the Spirit to a lesson/activity is what makes the difference. I think as leaders we need to bear real testimonies, not fake ones because the lesson told us to. The kids can tell the difference, and they sit up and take notice. The Spirit is the key.

I think what used to be sufficient in the past (the things that we did as youth) are not necessarily going to be good enough when we raise our kids. Infrequent family and individual scripture study and occasional family home evenings are not going to cut it.

Misfit's stricter than I would be, but in her long lists of inappropriate activities there weren't any that I thought she was going overboard on. Do these things really happen? Dr. Suess themed Girls Camp? How lame. Activities based on Reality Shows? Again, lame.

So Julia, Marilyn and Andrea - an enthusiastic yes to everything you said in your posts.

Julia's Much too long response once again....

2011-11-09T22:46:00.001-06:00

Though I have definitely asked myself some of these same questions (like, what is the real purpose of being an Eagle Scout when all I see are the MOTHERS frantically running around to "help" their boys finish??), I still don't think it is Misfit's (or my) place to question the youth program leaders as a whole when these are church sponsered, Brethren decided programs (though I've done my fair share of complaining about the scouting program itself). Nor have I seen the types of things Misfit obviously has seen...or at least, not to the extent or in such quanitity (there was once a YW mother/daughter Fear Factor and I do remember one friend sharing with me that in her lesson on Eternal Marriage she used Twilight in her lesson???????). Yes, there are things out there to be concerned about, but for the most part I have seen good-intentioned people doing good things with the youth. I would also agree with Marilyn that these warnings could be applied to all age-groups in the Church. Have you seen the home teaching #s lately? Not that it's about numbers, but the lack of #s does show there could be a lack in heart as well.

So, here are my rambling thoughts (BTW - I do have to say these posts have taken me away from my children far more than any church activity or any "learning for myself" activities lately...hahahah, love it!):

I do not think the problem lies with church leaders...it lies with THE FAMILIES! Mother and Father are primarily responsible for the nurturing of their children. We all know/agree with this, but when I see the youth programs fail is when I see the parents behind the scenes not doing their part, thus proving that it's not the programs entirely at fault. Even Elder Gene R. Cook once gave us permission to "skip" church activities if they don't meet family needs. In his book, Raising a Righteous Family Unto the Lord, he told about how his family missed several ward functions in a row. One of the leaders (maybe the bishop?) came up to Elder Cook expressing concern that the family wasn't doing well...when in reality they were doing much better because they hadn't attended the event.

The foundation must be there, or must be built afterward. Too many youth have cried in Nauvoo and thought they had a testimony. The leaders think the same way.
This reminded me of a talk by Lili Anderson entitled Three Realms of Law, Light and Life (much better reading than Misfit's stuff IMO). In there she says:

Many of you young women may have noticed that almost every year at girls’ camp are some girls who seem to come primarily to give the leaders grief. They break rules, they don’t show up when they’re supposed to, etc. But on the last night of camp, at the “testimony bonfire,” they often bear testimonies that seem quite sincere and emotional. They may say things like “I love my mom and dad, even though I don’t usually do what they say. I love my sister, even though I treat her badly. And I love all of you, even though I was a jerk all week.” You can see the puzzled expressions around the campfire wondering if such expressions are genuine, not wanting to be skeptical but neither wanting to be naïve. Personally, I believe the feelings expressed in such moments are sincere because the Spirit can touch anyone who is receptive. Nevertheless, in many cases, those spiritually charged moments pass quickly and are not followed up with the “trenchwork of the terrestrial.” It becomes very important then for us to be able to distinguish between solid, consistent progression toward the celestial and what we might term “the natural man on a good day.” (bold added)

A testimony is most likely to be forged in the everyday activities and teachings of a family, not at The Event. In many ways, the youth program when operated in this fashion is actually attempting to take the place of the family, not support it.

THUS the family is where the foundation lies. If the foundation is strong at home, it doesn't matter what the activities are as long as they are within the standards of the Church (Handbook, For Strength of Youth, scriptures, etc.). We need to be careful not to be prim, stoic and serious all the time either.

And to answer Andrea's question So how to advance the valiant ones without losing the ones who are along for the ride? I don't remember the exact quote, but I believe it was Marion G. Romney who said that youth are ready and wanting the doctrine. They don't need the fluff and the distractions from the spirit (see Teaching No Greater Call). I also believe that the Spirit is the Spirit. Emotion is not always the Spirit. "The fruits of the spirit are love, peace, joy...." If the activity provokes good, long-lasting effects, great.

Developing talents and appreciation for cultural arts. [This one would be very hard to do without going against the standards of the church]
There are actually some very wholesome cultural arts events that can and should take place within the standards of the Church. Cultural arts is not taking them to the latest #1 movie at the theater.

One last thought on EFY and whatnot. I have been to Education Week (an event sponsored by the Church) and I have been to Time Out for Women (a Deseret Book sponsored event). What a difference!! Though I was touched by some of the stories and thoughts shared at Time Out for Women, most of it seemed to be a promotion for those speaking and their products. It was a "stir their emotions" type meeting. I have gone back and forth on the EFY thing. Sure I think it's good. I went to one and had a blast when I was 15! Is it necessary for my children to go in order to gain a testimony? Heavens no. I have a friend who loves John Bytheway and he generally makes me cringe a bit because of the Mormon hero status he has seemed to acheive. Whatever. But, if he's the one to get my struggling youth back on track, he may become my hero as well. :-)

It all goes back to where the foundation needs to come from and Sister Anderson sums it up so perfectly I want to repeat: It becomes very important then for us to be able to distinguish between solid, consistent progression toward the celestial and what we might term “the natural man on a good day.”

P.S. (because I can't stop "talking")... I am concerned that the youth may not be learning leadership skills and youth leaders are getting more stressed out than needed because the leaders are doing all the work the youth should be doing. My own soap box topic. And this whole topic has made me want to evaluate better what activites I "make" my kids go to vs. letting them choose. What if you let them choose though and they go to none of it? Church is obviously not an option....but what about the rest of it?

Slightly More Alarmist

2011-11-09T20:50:00.003-06:00

So many people, youth and adults included, have reported church-sponsored activities and classes that are not only directly in conflict with the mission of the church, but, at times descend into idolatry, lewd conduct, and sexual innuendo. While I have some issues with the youth programs, I have never seen that in any of the wards I have lived in.

The problem is, the people are so immersed in our society’s culture of pornography that they cannot understand what a “wholesome recreational activity” is, nor can they understand the doctrine of the church. It is quotes like this one that makes you want to smack her. I'm pretty sure I can understand what a wholesome recreational activity looks like, thank you.

There are many speakers who have a following, and make their living off of speaking to the youth. This would be known as priestcraft. I just can't accuse John Bytheway of priestcraft. Sorry. There is some "emotional manipulation" going on, I suppose, when any professional speaker speaks. However, that doesn't make it bad. I remember a Michael Mclain (sp) fireside I went to as a youth and I cried and he had us sing the last song together and sure, you could call that emotionally manipulative. However, the message was a good one and doctrinally sound and if we did get all emotional and want to be better--that was a good thing in this case.

And I resent her wandering around referring to things as "priestcraft." I am sure she thinks the "Who Is Your Hero?" series is priestcraft, but I love it. My children love it. It connects the gospel to my children's own lives in a meaningful way. If the man didn't accept payment for his labors he wouldn't have time to create those books because he would be too busy earning money a different way. I think people should be paid for employing their talents. That is just one example. Most of what is sold at Deseret Book is worthy of nothing more than adding fuel to a large bonfire (Anita Stansfield anyone?) but I still don't think the writers of the junk are committing priestcraft by creating the junk (except, perhaps, Anita Stansfield :)).

Youth Conference: She has some good points with this one. The budgets are huge. When I was a YW we went river rafting for one youth conference. It was AWESOME, but now as an adult I can appreciate the price tag.

The events themselves are usually tacky, shallow, and emotionally manipulative…not to mention doctrinally incorrect. This is in reference to youth conference. In my experience as a youth, the youth conferences I attended were fun, but not really valuable. We had the testimony meetings and whatnot, but mostly the girls worried about looking good for the boys, much candy was inhaled, and nothing really spiritual was learned. However, I know that when my parents lived in NoDak, they put a ton of effort into their youth conferences because the youth who attended were spread over three states. They always attended the temple, there was always a speaker (more priestcraft) and it wasn't just about the socializing. So while not every youth conference is perfect, I still think it can be used effectively to build up the youth and help strengthen testimony.

Too many youth have cried in Nauvoo and thought they had a testimony. The leaders think the same way. This is a sticky issue. Yes, people can cry because the whole ambiance supports crying. However, feeling the Spirit usually is an emotional thing. Just because women are crying when they bear their testimony doesn't mean they don't have a testimony. Crying does not equal a testimony but it does not mean that you are not feeling the Spirit. My goodness I'm being convoluted--I just think you cannot judge whether one is sincere or not. Plus, I'd rather a youth have a less than sincere attempted spiritual experience than another "let's paint each other's nails" activity.

A testimony is most likely to be forged in the everyday activities and teachings of a family, not at The Event. In many ways, the youth program when operated in this fashion is actually attempting to take the place of the family, not support it. I agree--testimony is most likely to grow at home. However, I don't see the connection between her first true idea and her second assertion. I don't see the youth programs trying to take the place of the family. I see them trying to do whatever they can to keep our youth engaged with the gospel.

There was a time when my son was “supposed” to go on a retreat to a vacation cabin several hours away. Okay, the story she told that started with the sentence I just posted where she didn't send her son on a church outing really bothered me. 1) Why was there an activity planned just for the presidencies? Shouldn't activities that involve that much $ involve more boys? And if they are going to plan that activity, it should have been 95% about learning how to be effective presidencies, which did not sound like the case.

2) Why do we have to work so hard to "sell" our activities to the youth. The leaders shouldn't have to bribe our youth with great food and fun, fun, fun all the time. I'm not saying activities shouldn't be fun, but we are pandering to the lowest common denominator all the time and reinforcing the idea that "youth won't come if it isn't fun." Really? When was the last time someone tried??

3) HOW DO WE FIX THIS?? How do we focus on the essentials while still keeping attendance high? It comes back to parents. The parents who really believe the gospel have their children at the activities. The ones who are really laid back about the whole thing might not. So how to do advance the valiant ones without losing the ones who are along for the ride?

Not only are we personally seeing youth fall away from the church, there is an even bigger problem. We are seeing youth who go to the activities, participate in programs, go to the Events, go on temple trips, make straight A’s, look great, do service, and do not have the fire of the covenant burning within them. Here's where I a going to be slightly more alarmist than Marilyn. I think that this quote by Misfit is 100% correct. Why aren't they being converted? Is it the fault of the family? Is it wasted time in youth programs? Is it the natural effect of moral relativism in the rest of the world? Has it always been like this and I just wasn't paying attention? How do we provide enough opportunities for our youth to feel the Spirit that they learn to recognize it?

In order to reclaim the youth, there must be a willingness to put “away the strange gods from among [us] and serve the Lord.” Then will His soul be grieved for us, and He will then deliver us. Here's where you are going to call me crazy. Ahem. This is NOT something I would say in church--just so you know. I think the second coming is going to be within my children's lifetimes, or in my grandchildren's time at the very latest. *Awkward silence.* Okay, okay, I get it. I am not some crazy loon predicting because I think I know anything. I just can't imagine the world getting much more wicked and I can't imagine the people in the church getting much more polarized. There have always been those in the church that walked their own line, but now it is ridiculous.

For example, clothing companies started by Mormons for Mormons that do not have ANY MODEST clothes in their whole establishment despite that being their justification for existing. Coarse language everywhere you turn. The Twilight phenom. The rise in pornography use amongst those who have attended the temple. The push to accept homosexuality. Etc., etc.

Back to youth programs. What are the leaders of the youth doing to offset the worldly influences? Is it enough to paint each other's nails? Is it enough to do one service project a year? And if it isn't (and I don't think it is) then how can we change it without writing off the kids who will truly only come if it is "fun."

Okay, I sound hysterical. My hysterics come from my deep maternal insecurities. What am I doing as a mother to help my children develop testimonies turns into an agonized, "Help me here--it takes a village!!!" Instead of receiving that support I am explaining to my children why the speaker's clothes are not modest and why no, it is definitely not okay to say that, and why are they having a party in primary on the Sabbath????

Maybe I'm paranoid and too focused on minutia?

Regardless of my own issues, I think we need to step up our programs to keep our youth.

Semantics

2011-11-09T19:33:00.002-06:00

Okay--I agreed with everything you said Ju (except, I really don't read much anymore--I ignore my children when I do). The problem is not everyone who reads "you--not them" understands it the way you do. Enter the 5 pillars and blah blah. If it is just about women continuing to learn, to grow, to develop, and to tell their children how wonderful it is to learn, then great. But when you are telling moms that they need to graduate from your made-up university to be truly educated then it isn't just semantics anymore.

But, as we've noticed before, semantics does cause me cause for concern with TJEd.

(and i agree with this)

2011-11-09T17:05:00.000-06:00

I have had to learn a LOT about not judging people since I moved to this tiny town I live in. We have the weirdest of the weird when it comes to members here. I think only San Francisco, with it's higher LGBTQ population, might be weirder. ;-) But I've learned to appreciate that even people who don't live the Gospel the way I would want to live it, still have lessons to teach me in so many areas. In fact, I like living with these less-than-perfect people BECAUSE of the lessons I learn. Sometimes I get frustrated when they don't live the Gospel or run the Church programs the way I think they should (I can identify with Misfit there), but always it comes back to a lesson in humility for me. I'm not perfect, either.

Also, I just wanted to say: this (above) is awesome. I totally agree. I think there are weird people/Mormons everywhere (sure, Utah County/Utah in general has idiosyncrasies, but I think they are usually exaggerated and overblown by those looking to find them) and the challenge is learning to not only love but also LEARN from those you think are weird. And to realize they actually are acting in the way that makes sense to them, just as you are doing in the way that makes sense to you. And to be humble. So hard to do consistently for me---it seems like as soon as I learn it in one area, I forget and become prideful again in another area. Even with this discussion about Misfit Cygnet, I need to step back from the "Stop judging, Judger!" attitude I'm prone to adopt.

The Youth

2011-11-09T16:13:00.000-06:00

Aaa! So much I want to respond to, and also to bring up/ask about. This is the time where I really wish we could just get together and talk---although, writing is nice in a way because I can actually think out what I'm going to say and say it (unlike talking, where I often get interrupted/forget my train of thought/etc.). And I've been dealing with either cleaning up after throwing-up kids, or racing up and down trying to PREVENT having to clean up after throwing-up kids (every time my 2-year-old makes a tiny sound, she gets raced to the bathroom . . . which she really gets annoyed with)-----SO I am extremely RELIEVED to have a moment to sit down and type (the kids are napping) but I am also frustrated that I don't have MORE time.

Ahem. First of all, I like and agree with much of what's been said here about mothers learning (but also not having to, like, be in school---like Andrea said---I think she said it perfectly) and inspiring their kids, but it doesn't have to be formal and it can be individualized for your family.

And that polygamy article was probably the single best, most enlightening thing I've ever read on the subject. THANK YOU for posting it. I loved it, found parts of it very detailed/hard to follow and want to study it more, but I really want to share it with everyone I know now. We can discuss specifics more later if you want . . . but wow, really interesting dissection of D&C 132. Wow!

And also, Andrea, don't get too excited because I don't think I live THAT much like Misfit Cygnet, but there are a few similarities, but like I said our reasoning is quite far apart . . . anyway, we can get to that but first I am being DISCIPLINED and writing about the topic at hand: Youth Programs.

So, all I can go on here is my own experience. And what my own experience tells me is that she is WAY overreacting, but that her concern is not totally unfounded. Maybe I've just been lucky to be in really good wards? Because I've NEVER seen anything even close to as bad as what she describes (Halo parties? etc.) and that leads me to believe that they are a lot rarer than she thinks. I WOULD be concerned if I had seen tons of examples of this, but I just haven't. Also, I am currently the YW president in my ward and so I (maybe unfairly) feel a little defensive---like, she acts like all the leaders ever think about is helping the girls have fun! and be popular! and sexy! etc.---and I can say for dang sure she's wrong about that. We study and pray and agonize and worry and plan and try our VERY VERY HARDEST to help the girls feel the spirit--develop their own testimonies--learn useful skills--and oh yes, also have fun and enjoy being with each other. And sure, I am totally willing to admit we fail sometimes, and there is a lot more we could do, and my own shortcomings in being insecure or feeling self-conscious and wanting the girls to like me etc. DO make the activities I plan less-than-perfect sometimes. I know that, and I pray for help with it all the time. I felt totally inadequate to this calling when I got it almost 2 years ago, and I still do. Maybe someone more organized and more capable and less, whatever, would be better at it than I am, but the calling has blessed my life and I love it and I take it seriously. and I think it's a bit arrogant to assume that MOST PEOPLE don't do the same with their callings.

So, these leaders that always do cute handouts and crafts, and misfit thinks they are leading the youth to Babylon? I am less sure. I am not a fan of the cute handout/cutesy saying/etc. myself (as is probably apparent to you)----but I don't necessarily think God is condemning those methods either. Sometimes the youth need different things in order to be reached by the spirit. I feel the same about EFY. I never went to it, I would not send my kids to it (although I would not say no automatically . . . if they wanted to go and paid with their own money) because that sort of cheesy-emotionally manipulative stuff drives me crazy. Definitely, I want my kids to see the gospel more deeply than that. But do I think EFY is priestcraft and is undermining true testimonies in our kids? NO I do not. I think different methods work for different people. If a sentimental tear-filled meeting can pique a YW's interest and make her think, "maybe God IS real" . . . then who am I to condemn it? When I was a YW at girls camp I bore my own stupid cheesy "friendimony", tried to drum up tears because it seemed more "sincere," etc. I cringe thinking back on it. But I also learned deep gospel lessons that have stayed with me. I felt the spirit, it was TRULY with me though my own actions were not necessarily "deserving" of the spirit . . . I believe God sent it to me because I was young and trying and seeking him and he wanted to encourage that, even though I was not studying and understanding the gospel the way I would do later as an adult. And I'm sure the same principle holds true now, God encourages me even when my attempts are halting and inadequate, because he knows I am on a journey towards better things.

To sum up: There is so much more to the gospel than sappy music and John Bytheway. Of course! I will attempt to expose my YW (and my own kids) to deeper doctrines, to pure truths, to non-emotionally-driven gospel study (like that excellent polygamy article Andrea posted), etc. But I will also refrain from freaking out about how our youth are so worldly because they want to do an American Idol contest or they want to make Proclamation on the Family hairclips or whatever. :) I think having FUN (yes, even watching football or making occasional non-spiritual crafts or going boating) can also bring to pass the purposes of God. Just as it can in my own family. I will be the first to admit I don't always have the best-prepared FHE lessons, but our family spends a lot of time having fun together and I feel super good about it when we do! I feel like we are making memories that draw us closer together and make us a team; happy people who like each other and who feel a lot of hope and optimism about the future. I think having fun with the youth can serve the same purposes. Not to replace their families, not at all, but just as a supplement.

---(digression, sort of: I am the youngest in my family and when I was in HS my two oldest brothers were married, the other was in college. At that time I really, really hated FHE at home with just my mom and my dad. I didn't talk much to them anyway, certainly NEVER about "emotional" things like boys or deep feelings or whatever, and while that was I'm sure my own fault in a lot of ways, it wasn't something I knew how to change. SO, my parents would want me to spend "family time" sometimes, and I just resisted it like crazy. On the other hand I had a best friend who had younger siblings and a VERY CLOSE family. They did stuff together ALL THE TIME, and if I wanted to hang out with my friend I often had to go with her whole family. They let me tag along on so many things---I went to Russia with her family, and another time Germany, I had FHE with them, I went camping with them, etc. I loved her family and their openness and in many ways felt closer to her parents than my own parents. We had a lot of great, deep conversations and I learned a lot from them. I try to pattern my own family after them in some ways, although of course I also emulate my own parents. I just wonder, what if my parents had said "OUR family is the most important thing, you may not spend time with THEM at the expense of US." They would have been doctrinally correct perhaps, but I would have resented it so much and perhaps not had anyone in my life I could talk to about the deep things.)

Okay, here is my FINAL summing up. Sorry to be so long-winded. I think Heavenly Father is way more involved and clever in the way he saves his children than we sometimes realize. He works through multiple and varied channels in order to reach us. As that polygamy article reminded us, we are just custodial parents and our children are really HIS children. So he has a plan for them. He can and does teach them and touch their hearts through us, their parents. But he also lets them learn from imperfect YW leaders, wildy popular EFY speakers, sappy Mormon Pop music, self-important and know-it-all returned missionaries, enthusiastic but misguided seminary teachers, etc. etc. He reaches them at firesides---camp---pioneer trek---testimony meetings---progressive dinners---volleyball games etc. We just NEVER KNOW. We do the best we can, we use our specific talents and focus on our "pet" projects while we are in the calling. I try to do what I am good at and care most about. For example, I think the most important thing is emphasizing the possibility of repentance. From ANYTHING. It's NEVER too late. Other people might feel like teaching that is dangerous: "what if they minimize the seriousness of sin? they will just think they can repent and they won't try hard enough to avoid sin in the first place." Okay, fine, but I have to emphasize what I know most deeply. Then someone else comes along who may have totally different things to teach. The kids will be led to those who can teach them what they need. And we have to be humble enough to realize that those things, the things we aren't as passionate/knowledge about, are valuable too. I bet Misfit Cygnet would have a lot to offer as a YW president; like Andrea said, that frankness is sometimes very refreshing. But I don't see it as The One Lonely Voice of Truth in a Chorus of Babylon, either. If Misfit has really seen YW leaders glorifying immodesty and sex and violence etc. (she would say, maybe, "They are doing it unwittingly---but still doing it"), but they are TRYING to do their best in their callings----well, then I think the Lord is STILL using them the best he can. Not to say we shouldn't strive for more with our youth. Challenge them more, expect more of them, do less spoon-feeding. Yes. But we are supposed to strive for more with EVERYONE. We should do better with our RS lessons, Elders Quorum lessons, outreach to the needy, etc. I don't find any EXTRA cause for alarm with the youth.

Have to go pick up kids from school so I'm publishing this . . . hope it makes some sense :)
--Marilyn

trust the process

2011-11-09T14:36:00.000-06:00

one more thing...I agree with Kelly about the Trust the Process thing. It goes along with the blanket answer when a child asks what's it like in heaven and we say, "just gotta have faith." What? That makes no sense to the child. Hate the "trust the process" comment. :-)

Continual Education

2011-11-09T14:34:00.000-06:00

I don't think we disagree as much as you might thing on this topic, Ans. I just re-read what I wrote about the YOU principle and realized it wasn't very clear (I did write it close to midnight last night, forgive me). Your example with Rangers Apprentice is what I'm saying. YOU read the books first and then got your child to read them. It wasn't a "Hey, I hear these books are good" or "look this book is on a classics list so it must be good and so YOU have to read it." No, that's not what I'm saying. I believe in continual education for women. Period. Andrea is a well-read individual. Many, many, many mothers do not have that background from their younger years and I agree with what Kelly said...
Reading DeMille's book opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities, and also made me realize that I had a whole lot of learning left to do in areas I'd never even known existed. I was SO steeped in the conveyor belt mentality (to use DeMille's phrasing) that his book was huge for me. Since then I've read so much. I appreciate DeMille for opening my eyes. (bold added)

That is how I see this principle fits. As I said before this principle is not an excuse to take time away from your children, your responsibilities at home, or even time away from your husband...and this, sadly, is what many of the "TJEd Followers" have done or feel like they MUST do. I recently picked up A Well-Educated Mind by Susan Bauer (or Jessie??)...which a basically a Well-Trained Mind book for parents/mothers. I don't see anyone knocking her ideas down. This is all just a promotion for mothers continuing to educate themselves. I've seen too many women who, when their kids leave the home, don't know what to do with themselves because they stopped learning or are too scared to venture out of what they just did the past 20-30 years. I don't want to be that way.

I have at times felt "guilty" for making time to read in my days because other mothers have said they don't have time (my own self-imposed feelings there). Well, I'm sorry. I read. I love to read and make time every day for that for myself. That is what I am doing to further my education (that and responding to these lovely conversations!). :-)

Point is...I think it's more of a semantics thing that bothers you than the actual idea of educating yourself and using that knowledge to inspire your children.

TJEd and Moving On

2011-11-09T13:08:00.002-06:00

I disagree with Julia about the inspire your kids by educating yourself. What does that even mean? You, not them. What the? I know the DeMille's try to explain it through copious amounts of ambiguous writing, but I just can't agree with it.

Let's look at a classroom *gasp--not the conveyor belt* for a second. Teachers don't teach students by teaching themselves. They don't inspire students by demonstrating that they too are learning (at least, not at the early ages). They inspire students by being excited about learning. That's all you have to do. I convinced Miriam to read the Ranger's Apprentice series by sneaking around the house (in full view, I thought Cowen was going to die from laughter, funny kid) and saying secret words to my imaginary horse. Was I learning anything? No. Was I inspiring? Heck, yes. She's halfway through the fifth book and loving them.

That's what I don't like about TJEd. They started off with some great ideas, especially--don't waste time with worthless books. But after that, they went a little crazy.

When children are older, you can start pointing out things like, "Wow! I've never had to plan a dinner for that many people. I sure learned something new." But really, I don't see much point in that either. I was perfectly happy to believe my whole life (still do) that my mom knew EVERYTHING. That was inspiring. I wanted to be just like her and know everything too (ha--I know so little by comparison it is scary. For example, how do I get rid of this new infestation of fruit flies? I'm scared to call and ask her because she'll ask how it got started in the first place, and then I'll have to explain about the grapes Em stuck under her bed, etc.).

Point: you can be inspiring just by using the knowledge you already have. Kids DO NOT have that knowledge already. They notice things like that. It's inspiring.

Off my soapbox.

Now--read this post about youth programs and we'll discuss. Kami--you have to chime in her since you've been in YW more recently than me. Love to hear all of your perspectives. Also--we'll get to the way she lives because now I am dying (in the most dramatic way) to know what Marilyn meant when she said she lives a lot like Misfit for different reasons. But that, dear group, must wait until after the youth programs. See--sometimes shocking things spark discussion. It is just painful to read.

take 2

2011-11-09T10:59:00.001-06:00

Why, oh why, do we have to be having a fascinating discussion when I am in the midst of high-maintenance company??? So not fair.

First, Andrea, I've been humbled, repented, and am ready to choose the right. ;-)

I have realized something about myself recently, which is that when I am evaluating a program like TJEd or other things, I tend to intuitively drop the stuff I don't agree with, without every consciously acknowledging it to myself. So then when I'm asked to explain myself, it's harder for me to do and I have to stop and put some thought into it.

So a couple things I want to clarify. I don't really care that the DeMille's are using TJEd for a business. That's their right. What bothers me is the inconsistency of having "principles" followed by things (seminars,books,college classes, etc) that you have to buy in order to be following the "principles" correctly. I don't think I truly verbalized that to myself until recently. I just know that I decided long ago that the 5 Pillars of Greatness thing was a waste of my money since I could just as easily read good books without mailing in an essay to a stranger. You know? That is one of the lamest things.

Also, the cult-like following disturbs me. Not that there's something evil about TJEd itself, just the attitudes of the "followers".

As Julia pointed out, I also hated the idea that my mission shouldn't be my home and family, and that saying it is, is a cop-out. I actually read that somewhere from some TJEder and that really bothered me. I don't want another MISSION right now - the idea only made me feel like some sort of slacker, until I decided to ignore it.

I agree with you all that we can still get good from TJEd, no matter what sort of person DeMille is. I know I have. Since I knew NO home-schoolers ever until Hannah was four, I had no idea what sorts of options were out there. Reading DeMille's book opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities, and also made me realize that I had a whole lot of learning left to do in areas I'd never even known existed. I was SO steeped in the conveyor belt mentality (to use DeMille's phrasing) that his book was huge for me. Since then I've read so much. I appreciate DeMille for opening my eyes.

One of my little peeves has always been how much time Rachel DeMille spends doing this. I have poked around on some of the TJEd websites and stuff and it seems like she must be ALWAYS online. I have to wonder how you can help your children get educated when you're busy running a business, responding to emails, moderating yahoo groups and facebook pages, etc. Oh, and her phrase that she repeats like crazy in one of their CDs to "trust the process". She first started using that phrase when her oldest was about 11 - too soon in my opinion to expect your following to "trust the process" since you haven't even gone through it yourself yet!

And now I have to move on from TJEd for a minute, so I guess my Andrea-induced repentance didn't stick. ;-)

As for Misfit and her attitude, I have had to learn a LOT about not judging people since I moved to this tiny town I live in. We have the weirdest of the weird when it comes to members here. I think only San Francisco, with it's higher LGBTQ population, might be weirder. ;-) But I've learned to appreciate that even people who don't live the Gospel the way I would want to live it, still have lessons to teach me in so many areas. In fact, I like living with these less-than-perfect people BECAUSE of the lessons I learn. Sometimes I get frustrated when they don't live the Gospel or run the Church programs the way I think they should (I can identify with Misfit there), but always it comes back to a lesson in humility for me. I'm not perfect, either.
I don't want to be like Misfit and see so much evil, sorrow, and worldliness in the people around me. She keeps talking about the importance of judging evil, but that's a tricky thing to do in a Christ-like way.

A couple months ago I replied to one of Misfit's posts and suggested that she take a more diplomatic tone. She was actually really nice and promised to do that. I don't think that her aggravating tone is the way the Savior would want us to communicate, which is basically what I told her in my comment. She's always saying she appreciates (polite) honesty, so I thought I would tell her how I felt. ;-)

I would love to know what you all thought of her post on youth programs. REALLY made me think - especially remembering that the youth should be with their families, first and foremost, and if you are taking them away from their families for a church function, you better have a darn good reason! Worthwhile, uplifting activities are vital! I also agree, and think, that we are not helping our young men enough to prepare for missions in the young men's program. I talked to Josh about this - he's currently responsible for our stake youth as part of his calling. Definitely things to think about.

2011-11-09T01:28:00.000-06:00

First of all, it is so funny to me how so FAR on one side or the other people are on this issue. I could go on and have this same discussion about politics, parenting (spanking or no spanking, etc), homeschool vs. public school, etc...etc...etc... So, to me, this TJEd is no different than any other philosophy than others.

Example: Years ago I read A Joyful Mother of Children by Linda Eyre. It revolutionized my way of thinking as a mother. I suddenly wanted to read everything by the Eyres and wanted to be just like them. I read another book of theirs and loved it. Then I tried another and was completely turned off by it. I didn't then go swear off the Eyres as horrible people and say that I was never going to follow anything else they said. Plus, neither of them have any professional degree in parenting (correct me if I'm wrong), so who makes them the experts anyway? They, too, went on to publish curriculums for "Joy Schools" (which any mom could do if they put some thought into it)...yes, a $$-making venture. And started a website with value-parenting ideas and whatnot...another $$-making venture. It's what people do!! You take what you want, what works for your family, and move on. People do get very wrapped up in TJEd on both sides of the fence and I don't get it. This is why I resisted the making of or being a part of a "TJEd group" here where I live. Why does TJEd bring out all-or-nothing attitude in people?

Misfit in General
I do not like her style. I will not condemn her the way she condemns others (though I'm tempted), but I will say that "contention is of the devil" and so to say things for argument's sake just might put her on the same side as those she's criticizing. :-) In general, I just stay away from her blog. I do agree with Andrea that we do walk on eggshells sometimes with these sorts of topics (and in church culture) which is why I love Sister Beck...she is not an eggshell walker, nor is she acerbic. :-)

What I do agree with where Misfit is concerned...She said:

We don’t need TJED moms starting Princess Academies, sponsoring trips to Costa Rica to help the poor, or any of that. We need moms who will be at home, focused on their children....Distract the mother. Prey on her insecurities in her attempt at educating her children at home, and then get her completely focused on herself.

I have to admit, some of the TJEd stuff has made me feel this way. That my mission is somehow outside the home rather than in the home. I have felt the need (and will say desire) to do the 5 pillar stuff...the same way I felt I needed to rearrange my house with the right bookshelves and closets to have a true TJEd home AND the same way I thought I needed to have a chore system just like the Eyres. I latch on, realize I'm crazy and take from it what I can. It's me. And thankfully, all the TJed stuff is just too expensive and not worth my $$. :-)

Another disturbing thing is the fact that nearly all people who are following the TJED methodology label themselves as “TJEDers” or “TJED Followers”. They brand themselves in this strange fashion, and then become nearly religious in their adherence to this “belief system.”

I do dislike labels. I dislike being part of a group and feeling like I can't veer off or be different than others who are part of the same group. I dislike being exclusive. And I do think there is a major unhealthy following in the TJEd circle.

I have always been leery of the $$ schemes. Not the original seminars, per se...that makes a bit of sense to me. But the extra things...the books that continue to come out (The Student Whisperer????? Lame!) and the Leadership seminars (LEMI). Just seem lame to me and a way to make $$$.

Disagree with Misfit:
So it’s you, not them. You need to study and get your Depth Phase and your 16 Pillars and your Levels of Leadership and your two towers, and then you will be qualified to teach your children? Meanwhile, they are just supposed to watch you doing this and get “inspired?” What a load of baloney.

This, I have come to believe, is a misconstrued take on the You, Not Them principle. I think everyone on this blog would agree that women should be furthering their education. Does that need to with formal degrees, or through TJEd 5 pillars or George Wythe? NO! But it is vital for our children to see their mothers stretching themselves in whatever they are learning, be it through their calling or an outside class or whatever. Going back to that first quote though...we all need to careful that what we are doing is not taking us away from our families more than is necessary. This is how I take the YOU not them principle: let your children see you learning in some way, set an example for them in what you want them to be doing. This does not mean you need to pull out the Saxon math books or feel guilty that you're not pulling out the Saxon math books just so they will miraculously be inspired to learn math!! But it does mean that we do need to show them the process of learning...by example and WITH them (not separate from them). DeMille says himself, "start learning and pull them along with you." I think that last phrase is much skipped over.

Once again, please keep comments brief and as unemotional as possible.

I'm sorry, but if you're going to post things on a blog to stir emotion, do not put this line on your post!

Last Thought (I hope, as I'm sure you do too)
I have gone back and forth on the TJEd thing myself. I think the 7 keys are great when focussing on the positive aspect of them, not the "nots." A friend of mine read this book and said, "You mean, everyone doesn't think this way?" I had to admit that this book was a good thing for me to get away from doing things just because everyone did them. Does that make sense? Not everyone thinks this way (as Andrea does). The same way as when I read 7 Habits of Highly Effective people or Dave Ramsey stuff. It's great , but it's common sense to me and so it doesn't do much for me. Using parts of the TJEd stuff has given me and my family some direction, given us some great ideas to implement and try, given me permission (so to speak) to read on my own (without neglecting my family to do so).

On the flip side, I think there has been created a TJEd conveyor belt of sorts and a culture of elitists and a mentality of "your stupid and will not raise intelligent children if you do not do it our way" (which is totally opposite of what TJEd proposes to teach). Again, why is there such a stir? Is it really that bad or really that good? It's just a philosophy, isn't it?!

While We're Chatting

2011-11-09T01:08:00.001-06:00

what do you make of this article on polygamy?

Misfit Again

2011-11-08T19:59:00.004-06:00

I am going to call Kelly to repentance now. Kelly, there are several other Misfit articles I want to discuss here, so no skipping around. Stay focused.

Ha. That was fun.

On to the matter at hand. I have to agree with Marilyn, Kelly, and Autumn about Misfit's general tone. However, I also find it refreshing sometimes. There is a lot of pussy-footing around issues in the world/church, and while I think sheer abrasiveness for abrasiveness' sake is unnecessary, it also caught my attention and made me think. I don't know if a gentler, more humble tone would have done that in quite the same way. On the flip side, I don't think many people who follow TJEd would be open to hearing her viewpoint because of her tone. You shouldn't alienate your audience.

As for TJEd, I have also read much of the materials and thought about the principles and pondered applying them in my homeschool. Eventually I decided against it (even though Julia calls me a closet TJEder) because of the BLATANT DISHONESTY of telling people that their own education is inadequate (playing on all homeschoolers' insecurity about doing the best thing for their children) and that they only way to get an adequate education is to spend lots of money getting a degree from a non-accredited school. Lots of moral self-satisfaction, I suppose, that you now are truly educated, but a complete waste of time and money otherwise. Perhaps Oliver DeMille is a wonderful person, but his "university" is a scam--there just plain isn't a nice way to say it.

I do, however, disagree with Misfit about if something is a lie than it is all bad. Marilyn put it perfectly so I don't need to rehash it. My concern is that the good in TJEd is thought of as TJEd goodness instead of being recognized as obvious good teaching practices (although there are plenty of bad teaching practices put forward as well) that many other people have also advocated. I also get bugged by the cult-like adherence of some of its followers. But again, just because I disagree with some of the teaching practices doesn't mean I have to disregard the obvious good in TJEd--like reading classics and recognizing that small children don't need to be pushed academically.

So . . . my closing remarks. I agreed with some of what Misfit said, but her whole premise--that because Oliver DeMille is a bad person you should avoid TJEd like the plague--is faulty. While I have many concerns about TJEd, her concerns are not mine.

I Agree with Marilyn

2011-11-07T23:02:00.002-06:00

I am too lazy to look up the quote, but Brigham Young basically said that whether it be found in heaven or hell, if it is truth, we claim it as our own. The scriptures also say that by their fruits ye shall know them. What are the fruits of TJED? I have personally read TJED, the home companion, leadership education, attended two seminars, listened to a couple of cds, flipped through the kimber curriculum books, and read a couple of books written by people who follow TJED ie A House United by Nicholeen Peck (amazing!) and The Other Eminent Men of Wilford Woodruff. Every single one of these books I felt the spirit while I read them and found amazing things in them that have improved my life. Also, every single woman that I know who is following TJED is reading classics and writing, improving their education, trying harder to be better mothers, getting involved in politics to promote freedom by returning to the constitution, becoming more self sufficient through gardening, food storage, learning skills like weaving, sewing, etc. and trying to become debt free. All of these things are GOOD. These fruits say to me that TJED is not evil. This lady is crazy. Also, since when did making money become and evil thing? Dave Ramsey said on his radio show that people tend to see money like a pie--they think there is only so much to go around. He says money is more like a river--the more there is the farther is flows and the more people's lives it touches. Entrepreneurship is a good thing!

Misfit

2011-11-07T20:30:00.000-06:00

Marilyn,
Your thoughts echo my own. I've been reading Misfit Cygnet for awhile. I have gotten so frustrated that I've sworn off reading her...but then I relent and check back in, and find that she's written something that I so totally agree with that I keep on reading. My husband and I both follow her blog. We are either really annoyed with her attitude (you're right in that what she calls satire is NOT satire - it's self-righteous condemnation a lot of times), find her totally thought-provoking although we disagree, or actually (surprisingly!!) agree with her. It definitely varies.

As for TJEd, I thought she had some valid points to make. As someone who's done quite a bit to research, attended a couple of their seminars, read a few of the books (but definitely not all), and knows some people personally who were peripherally and directly associated with the George Wythe College/University (one was a teacher there), I can tell you that she's not all wrong. They do have some problems. They are trying to make money off of this. A lot of the "educational truths" here are for income, in my opinion. I don't know that they are being dishonest on purpose. The blog post she references about George Wythe defrauding a lady out of money is not entirely accurate. If you continue on the blog she cites, and read through the comments, there is more information to give a better picture. I don't think she read the comments - or else she went looking for information and only saw what she wanted to see.

I thought her post about BYU Football was lame. I thought her post about problems in our youth program were fairly accurate.

As for TJEd...I think people who adhere to it are a little too...I don't know how to say...strict in their adherence? They equate TJEd truthfulness with Gospel truthfulness and act as though they are one and the same. They are not.

Misfit's very judgmental. I don't know how she can stand to live in a world with so many sinners, actually. :-) But sometimes she judges correctly (in my opinion). Sometimes I think she skirts the line of apostasy...kind of like her ranting about ESPN when you know it had to be approved by at least some of the Brethren. Either that, or they leave people to govern themselves and are willing to take the consequences of that - however it plays out for the Lord's University. They never have said that they wouldn't have to approve this stuff if only we could live a higher, football-free law. I think she makes weird assumptions sometimes. I'm not a huge football fan - I enjoy an occasional game because it's fun. But I don't think it's evil, nor do I think that all football players are fornicating drunkards. One of my good friends quarterbacked for BYU and I KNOW he wasn't. But she considers them all evil.

But we're talking about TJEd. I think there is some good there. I have taken what I have found to be beneficial to my family and used it. It's huge in Utah - particularly among the Utah County homeschoolers (largest base, I think), and so I think she comes up against it a LOT...people who think it's the One, True Way to homeschool. That would be frustrating.

As for her post, she included a link that talks about the hebraic way of educating...THAT was interesting reading!

and a postscript

2011-11-07T19:04:00.000-06:00

Ok, I've spent a long time reading some other posts on that lady's site, and now I'm confused. I am still often bothered by her writing and her tone. She calls it "satire" but I find nothing witty or ironic in it---just heavy-handed and didactic instruction from what appears to be her lofty perch of "I-know-better-than-you." But . . . then there are posts I totally agree with, think are well-written, and admire her thought process in. And there are still others where I find I am nearly identical to her in practical application---i.e. our family behaves much as hers does---but for drastically different reasons. So I really don't know what to make of her. I guess I can take the good and just pass over (what I think is) the bad---much as we are supposed to do with anything we read---and which is the whole reason I disagree with her assertion that we should avoid TJEd like the plague. :) What do you ladies think?

I am annoyed

2011-11-07T15:37:00.001-06:00

Okay, Marilyn here spouting off about something I know nothing about . . . forgive me . . . but you did ask . . . :) So as I recall, this is the same lady who wrote about how cheering for basketball player Brandon Davies is the same thing as cheering for fornication (or something)---and she lost all credibility for me then. I don't home school and I haven't even READ "TJEd" but her tone really rubs me the wrong way, as it has in other posts she's written. She reprimands other people for not being "orthodox" enough, basically, and calls them out for various "deviations" from her idea of "the true way"--- whether it's not listening to the spirit in choosing education, daring to find any value in words from a "liar," finding something to commend in a person who says they're sorry, etc. etc. etc. Excuse all the scare quotes, but as I said, this really annoys me. Even though I find validity in some things she says, her know-it-all-posing-as-'oh-yes-please-disagree-with-me-because-it-shows-independent-thought'" attitude seems to me the opposite of an honest seeker of truth. She asks for thoughtful comments and then administers a gospel-catchphrase-filled beatdown of anyone that disagrees, disregarding any spiritual promptings they claim to have felt as "deception from the devil." She seems to enjoy her position as the one who "stirs things up", seeing herself as some sort of modern-day Cassandra, but I think it's actually pretty easy to offend people in the name of "telling it like it is", and I don't find her particularly thought-provoking. I also take issue with her cavalier labeling of "apostates" "liars" etc.---as if she is the ultimate judge of such things---and then her argument to anyone who says contrary: "Don't blame me! I'm just telling it like it is! Your anger is proof of my correctness!"

Grrrrr. Furthermore, I disagree with her fundamental premise in this post: i.e. that if something "comes from a liar," it is fundamentally flawed and no part of it can be good. Since when did perfection (or even righteousness) in the messenger become a requirement for a true message? Dickens, Moliere, Dostoevsky, and thousands more would---by her measure---be unfit for reading and we couldn't learn anything from them. Who cares if the TJEd guy told a lie (or in her words, "is a liar"); I don't think that means that everything he then teaches from thenceforth should be discarded lock, stock and barrel. Has she ever read the Doctrine & Covenants? How about section 91 on the Apocrypha:

There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;

There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are ^ainterpolations by the hands of men. . . Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him ^aunderstand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; And whoso is enlightened by the ^aSpirit shall obtain benefit therefrom.

So, here we have something which by God's own words contains "MANY THINGS THAT ARE NOT TRUE"---and yet we are told we can benefit from it through the spirit's enlightenment. So I guess while I shouldn't really have a dog in this fight, not having even read the dang book as I've said---still, I'm going to be on the opposite side of anyone who thinks we have to be perfect before we can bring something true or beautiful into the world. I don't think we have to do a character analysis of the author of everything we read---we can read their ideas and judge them on their own merits, take what is good, discard what is bad, just as we are supposed to do IN EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES! Oh, and yeah, I hate MLM too, but again I don't think that qualifies me to set myself up as a judge of everyone who has participated in it. I have no doubt some of them are deceptive and maybe some even defraud others but that's no reason to tar a huge swath of people with the same brush.

Ahem. Please forgive me if I've been too hasty. I don't read this lady's blog often (as I said, I encountered that Brandon Davies post and immediately dismissed her as someone so far from me in opinion that I could never enjoy reading her) so perhaps I am unfair. And for all I know her specific TJEd criticisms have some basis in truth. It's her tone and her attitude I take issue with (and yes, also her writing style). I look forward to reading your thoughts and please don't hesitate to tell me if I'm totally off-base here; these are simply my gut reactions!

Thomas Jefferson Education

2011-11-07T12:19:00.000-06:00

Hello Folks!
I've discussed this blog post with Kelly already and then Andrea suggested we make it a discussion topic on this blog! I'm sure there is plenty we can all say about it...and I'd love to sort through my own feelings on the topic as well. So everyone please read and we can discuss! :-)
LOL
JULIA

Shinichi Suzuki

2011-10-11T11:44:00.000-05:00

I've been studying up on the Suzuki music method out of curiosity...I hear so much about it but I never really knew much. I found some books online that were either about him, or written by him, but our library only had one - so that's what I've been reading. Utterly fascinating. The book is: "Ability Development From Age Zero".

Sadly, I forgot until I was almost done reading to put page numbers by my quotes...don't know what I was thinking.

** Have children give a weekly (musical) performance for Dad and family. Have Dad clap! Dad should request another performance the following week. (This is to motivate your young children to keep practicing.)

**"The ability to concentrate for long periods of time can be nurtured". Start by presenting fun tasks which he can do.

How to teach your child a skill
1. Begin as early as possible
2. Create the best possible environmnet
3. Use the finest teaching method
4. Provide a great deal of training
5. Use the finest teachers

** Daily pray for your child
"A prayer is when you whisper the hopes of your heart".
"The real heart of a parent is prayerful".

** "Watch the actions you inspire in your child through your attitude. Respect them. Speak pleasantly" (as you would someone else's kid).

** "The heart that feels music will feel people. If we listen to the music of Bach or Mozart, we can feel the hearts of Bach and Mozart in their music. Maybe at first only the melody is understood, but after continuous listening it is possible to understand all of the religious, sensitive, overpowering personality of Bach...This is the beauty and wonder of music".

** "I have concluded that anger is unnecessary in human life. Practice not being angry instead of developing an ability for anger".

** "If a child is brought up to have a beautiful heart and wonderful abilities, with love for others and the happiness of being loved, then the mission of a parent is ended. The way (to make a living) will open up for the child later. Parents need not worry whether or not their child will succeed".

** "Having great ability means having a deep and great ability of the heart". (regarding musical ability specifically) pg 59

** "We do not have to become professional musicians...If, as a person works at playing the violin well, he develops the talent to overcome any difficult problem by working, then the talent will be born to accomplish even the hardest problems easily." pg 62

** "A real meaning of sophistication is to be sensitive to another person's feelings, and have respect for their point of view". pg 63

Later, Suzuki talks about the importance of parents in education and how it is ultimately their responsibility. He thinks it is stupid when a school asks parents for their cooperation. He said that is backwards...the parents should be asking the school for their cooperation in the education of their children.

Some of the things that I didn't agree with Suzuki about -
From what I can tell, he pretty much goes with the Tabula Rasa view of children and says that it is mainly environment that shapes their later proclivities. He says you can't say that a five year old has a "gift" for music without taking into consideration the experiences that they have had for the five years leading up to the discovery of this gift. While I agree that children can be taught many things and talents can be developed (not every talent has to be inherent from birth) - I do think that we come to earth with different personality traits and talents already part of us. He applies this same theory to raising a good child - it's all based on how the parent interacts with their child that will determine what sort of adult the child turns out to be. While I don't agree with his underlying assumption, the way he describes we should interact with our children was interesting and made me feel like I could use some more work on the subject.
He gives an interesting example in how our attitudes shape our children:
If the mother says, "Take a bath while the water is still hot", she is more likely to be obeyed than if she says, "The water is hot, so hurry up and take a bath, or else!".
Ok. I get it. Stop being grumpy. ;-) I'm trying!!!

And while I'm on the blog. It is in my memory that someone here (one of Andrea's sisters????) is currently living in Switzerland. Is that right? Because I'd like to speak at them. ;-) My husband, sister, brother-in-law, and my parents are going to be in Interlaken for a week next summer. We're staying at the Hotel Victoria-Jungfrou. I'm wondering if you have any tips for traveling, must-see's, etc. None of us speak German, and I'm hoping that won't be a problem. I'd also like to see the Swiss Temple if we have time, and I'm wondering how far away that is and what the best way to travel there might be.

The Virginian

2011-08-18T17:52:00.000-05:00

Has anyone read this book? If not, you MUST read it. It is a fabulous, classic western love story. I loved it. I was going to post some of my favorite lines but I just leant the book to a friend, so I'll have to wait until I get it back. Anyway... read it! JULIA

Free Range Kids

2011-06-22T16:16:00.000-05:00

Best parenting book I've read in ages!!

Free-Range Kids by Lenore Skenazy (the worst mom in america)

Fabulous book! The author sent her 9 yo son on the NY subway alone and became infamous all over the news shows. I don't know that I would do that, necessarily, but I did laugh out loud through most of this book!!

She basically states that NOW is safer than when we were kids (maybe not the 50's) and debunks the many reasons why we are all such worriers! She defends more outside playtime, more time at the park without parents and with other kids, and the idea that our kids are capable of doing more than we give them credit for. Loved it!

****

I know this blog is not for parenting books and advice...so let's move on. I would love to start reading books together as a group again, if anyone else is up for it. In the meantime, here is a list of my summer reading:

Last of the Mohicans
Things as They Really are - Elder Maxwell
Cry, the Beloved Country (read it in high school & want to read it again)
Poisonwood Bible
The Underground History of American Education
Finish the Rangers Apprentice series (# 9 & 10)
A History of US (US history curriculum to prepare for next year's studies)
Review Excellence in Writing curriculum

With the kids I am reading Gone Away Lake by Elizabeth Enright now.

I may not get it all done, but there's my list if anyone wants to read along. OR tell me what we all may want to read together. :-)

BTW- pix of my baby and a Free Range story are on my blog if you want to see. :-)

Quiet Time

2011-06-12T15:46:00.002-05:00

It is that most special time of the day--quiet time. All my family is sleeping (or playing so quietly I can't hear), so I am going to write down just a few more of the gazillion thoughts I've had about The Bonds That Make Us Free. Then I will unfold all the corners, return it to the library, buy my own copy and read a chapter every few months. Really, as I was telling Kami, there is too much in this book for one read in a short amount of time. I did it, but I feel that by the end I was in overload mode and I wasn't getting as much out of it. Not the author's fault--just an awful lot to chew on.

Pgs 44-45: "I could spend my life assembling, feeding, and protecting the egotistical, ravenous, and addictive fiction I called my self--or I could refuse it every sort of nurture and let it die an unregretted death. I knew that unless I somehow could leave off my project of promoting and protecting myself and instead open myself to life, I would be doomed to a lifetime of self-involvement. I could see that self-absorption is poison to the spirit. . . . Like concern for others, self-concern is a way of relating to people."

Pg. 49: "Everything depends on what we are becoming, and what we are becoming depends upon how true we are to the deep, gentle, and irrepressible invitation to do right by our fellow beings and before God."

I tried that for a day. I mean I put all my energies into really trying it. Focusing ENTIRELY on the needs of my children. I jumped up when I would rather have stayed sitting, and I was kind even when I disciplined. The feeling in my home that day was magic. I really can't describe it. I didn't feel frantic, like I was trying to force too much into too little time. Then the next day I lost my temper with a small girl who pooed her pants and the sweet feeling vanished. Kami and I have talked extensively about tempers and yelling and doing what your own parents did--and we disagree about something. She doesn't think you should set the goal to stop losing your temper with your kids. She thinks it is unrealistic.

I think that it is realistic. That it is MANDATORY. That becoming better people is the whole reason we are here and if I don't trust Heavenly Father enough to help me control my temper than I don't really trust him. (Not that Kami doesn't have a valid point about my being really, really hard on myself sometimes.)

That beautiful day gave me a sense of what my house should be like if it is truly a temple house. Once I was reading about the Jaredites and how by the end they were too angry with each other to care that they were all dying. They ruined themselves knowingly. The Spirit whispered to me, "Your anger can ruin your family."

I think about that a lot. It doesn't make it easier to not yell or get mad, but it helps me see the consequences. This book helped me see what action steps I could take to get better at seeing my children as people and showing them respect.

Pg. 108: ". . . when our hearts are open and sensitive, a prompting to treat someone considerately comes as a gentle invitation to do something we have nothing against doing and indeed welcome doing. . . . When our hearts are right, the obligation we feel to treat others generously comes to us as an opportunity."

This is a long quote but I want Kammers to read it--so we can chat about it later. Pg. 117: "But a perfectionist's conscience cannot be satisfied. Meeting its demands does not put it to rest. This is simply because, fundamentally, perfectionists are interested not in being conscientious but in proving their conscientiousness, and this requires demanding more and more of themselves, unendingly.

This, incidentally, helps us understand what's wrong with one frequently heard excuse. People sometimes say, when they think about self-betrayal, 'If I did everything that seemed right to do, I'd be so frenzied and weary I wouldn't have time for anything else. I can't put that kind of pressure on myself!' However, when we are not betraying ourselves we do not require more of ourselves than we can do. We may wish we could do two needed things at once, but we don't have any reason to beat ourselves up because we can't. We do that only if we're self-betrayers of the perfectionistic kind, having to prove we're doing all we can because our hearts are not at peace about ourselves."

Pg. 120: "When we are caught up in self-betrayal, 'admitting' we are unworthy is just one more strategy in our repertoire. It gives us just as good a justification for acting irresponsibly as the strategy of condemning others. It is a powerful maneuver because claiming to be a victim of our make-up or nature is even harder to refute than claiming to be a victim of others."

Pg. 167: "Occupying the position of another person for even a few moments means admitting that he or she might not be guilty as charged, and with that admission, our previously inflexible accusation crumbles. It always works out this way--the truth dispels the lie."

Pg. 170: "Jenny changed when she gave up trying to push her influence upon Erin and instead let herself be influenced by Erin. It happened when she stopped trying to change her daughter so as to make her own life story turn out the way she had in mind, with herself as heroine at the center of it. Instead, she let the unfolding story of her life be determined by her daughter's needs. She let Erin's need direct her responses."

Pg. 176: "When they no longer have to worry about defending themselves, they have the 'space' to decide how they will respond to our new response to them."

I think this is a really interesting idea because I lived with a sister for several years that forced me, by her behavior, to constantly defend myself when she was around. We weren't allowed to be alone together, we fought constantly, etc. Once that became the pattern of our behavior it was very difficult to break the cycle. (We did--but we are still on our "best behavior" around each other because we know how quickly we degenerate into our past selves around each other.) Building a new, better, more open and friendly relationship took a lot of time and a lot of overlooking things and, most importantly, it required that sister to reach out to me and convince me that she didn't want to hurt me anymore. I hadn't, before this book, thought about how I might have been hurting her, but I have always been grateful that she didn't give up on our having a relationship. The reason this is pertinent is that she gave me a "new" person to respond to so I could respond differently than I had previously.

I'm still not sure how to implement this exactly. Once you've been hurt, trusting is so difficult. But, according to this book, you have to be the one to trust first. To be vulnerable first. Hard.

Of everything in the book, I think this next part stuck out to me the most. Pg: 179: "Before the change [of heart] we communicate the message, 'You deserve whatever treatment you are getting from me. Justice is going to be done, and that means you must suffer.'" I give that message to my kids all the time, and I have that feeling all the time--you did something wrong and bugged me and I had to stop the important thing I was doing and come and discipline you and so you are going to pay. Or . . . what you did was clearly done just to give me more work (usually how I feel when I find poo on the carpet--which I do, regularly) and I don't deserve more work because I am already working harder than I would like, so you are going to suffer.

I hate writing that--but it's real. That is really how I feel toward my kids--the people I love most in the world. And my kids are babies! They are just little people who don't do anything vindictive or thought-out.

I keep trying to change my thought pattern to: my kids are more important than any other work I might be doing. It is hard, though, to really and truly stop yourself in the heat of the moment and think correct and honest thoughts.

Pg 180: "This sacrifice of retribution I am calling love clears a space in which others can let down their guard and be emotionally truthful with themselves. . . . When we criticize people, their consciences console them. When we love them, their consciences indict them."

I want to do that with my kids--let their actions do more of the teaching so they have to be mad at themselves instead of mad at me.

Pg. 182: "But what amazes me is how often people do respond well--how often reconciliation follows a showing forth of love. Hard indeed are those who will not be touched by someone else's sacrifice of retribution."

If I want my children to remember the LESSON behind the discipline instead of the ANGER/FEAR of the discipline, I have to sacrifice the retribution and focus on the showing forth of love after the sharpness.

Pg. 188: "It is simply futile to try to change another if we do so in a critical spirit, even a mild one. Generally speaking, we influence others most profoundly when we do not seek to change them at all, but simply go about straightforwardly doing the right and loving thing."

Okay--this is obviously a spouse quote. But how do was appropriately discuss concerns (make ourselves vulnerable) if we can't seek to change him/her at all. If there is a problem we are hoping for change. I can't imagine that NEVER talking about problems will always solve the problem eventually. Maybe sometimes, but not always. Or maybe I don't have enough faith in the power of love.

Pg. 191: "'Every force,' says the Tao te Ching, 'calls forth a counter-force. . . .But love is a power unmitigated. It allows others their freedom." That is an important quote for a controlling/domineering person like myself. I don't want to force my children to rebel just to feel empowered.

Pg. 262: "The same principles govern here as before. If we respond as we feel prompted, we remain free of any reason to justify or excuse ourselves and to blame others. And if we catch ourselves already in self-betrayal--criticizing boasting, becoming angry, lying, indulging in self-accusation or self-pity or any other negative thoughts or feelings--we have a bona fide opportunity to decide whether we will continue to do so or turn ourselves about. We can do what we did before--we can ask, 'Might I be in the wrong?' or 'What is the right thing to do?' or 'What is the other person struggling with?' and then let the truth guide our actions. Doing this sincerely is what it takes to stay on course, and it lies within our power."

Pg, 289: "The difference between the ideas of this book and the causal theory is of the utmost consequence. If we are victims of our history, we can do nothing to correct our problems. The past has already wrought its damage and cannot be called back. We may be able to work around and compensate somewhat for the searing events in our past, but we can never eradicate them. On the other hand, if we are not victims but instead producers of our emotional problems, and if it is right now that we are producing them, then we can eliminate the problems at their source. By the means we have discussed in this book, we can stop producing them."

Pg. 294: "Forgiveness concerns our wrongdoing, not theirs. And our wrongdoing includes our failure to treat them as we ought, our finding them at fault for this failure, and our refusal to forgive them for this supposed fault.

Second, our act of forgiving consists of repenting of this wrongdoing of ours, or in other words, ceasing to accuse those we have been accusing.

Third, when we cease to accuse them, we cease to feel there's anything on their part that needs to be forgiven! We no longer find them offensive. We see that from their point of view they are struggling against perceived offenses and threats just as we have been. Thus forgiveness involves opening ourselves to the truth, letting our former offenders become real to us, and no longer believing there is anything for us to forgive. As they undergo a transformation in our forgiving eyes, we undergo a transformation ourselves.

This must be so. As long as we see others as needing our forgiveness, we will continue regarding ourselves as their victim and will remain accusing still. We live free of the bondage of accusing, afflicted feelings only by ceasing to find and take offense."

That was a long quote but I wanted to write it down to make sure I had it somewhere I could read and reread it. I don't really understand this concept completely, but it rings of truth to me. Forgive and forget is impossible if we still feel victimized. I know--I'm still struggling with something my hubby said to me two years ago. According to this author, I'm not really struggling with what hubby said but my reaction--my taking offense. The letting go of the offense, the clearly seeing where hubby was coming from--that is hard. I haven't managed it yet, but I want to.

Pg. 306: "Jeff's is the second kind of case, not the first. He didn't consider serving Robin a deflection from his life's purpose because she WAS its purpose. He let her needs dictate his days. He made serving her his work, not a disruption of his work. That's why, too, he never felt noble or heroic during those early years of marriage, and also why, when others felt sorry for him, he never felt sorry for himself."

That is how I want to be about my children.

Pg. 307: "Love is the expression of the one who loves, not of the one who is loved. (Kierkegaard)"

Pg. 317: "When we're stuck in self-betrayal, we dedicate ourselves to finding or producing evidence to prove that we're acceptable and worthwhile. Whatever our particular outward style, from self-disparaging or fawning to arrogant or angry, we live as if we were defendants in a trial. The jury is composed of all the people whose opinions we think are important; they're the ones we've got to convince. Unsettled by our insecurities, we await their judgment.

But the jury members never come back with a final verdict. . . . Why? Because from their individual points of view, they are the ones on trial. They are as concerned to have us validate their self-image as we are to have them validate ours. . . . Therefore what they want from us is not evidence that will establish our acceptability but evidence that will establish theirs. They can't give us their final stamp of approval because they never feel completely approved of themselves."

This reminds me of a sister once who said from her whole childhood/adolescent experience the sum total of her feelings was of never being quite good enough. I don't ever want my children to feel that way. I want my children's sum total feelings to be that they were/are loved. I also don't want our family life to consist of children working for approval without finding it. We all work for approval from those we love, so I can't create an environment where that doesn't exist. However, the more they find approval at home, the less they will have to seek it elsewhere.

Pg. 319: "Fable--The quality of life--the success we hope for--depends largely upon attaining what people have commonly called the good life. By this we mean competing for, obtaining, and securely holding on to certain externals--for example, pleasure, status, or possessions--which we regard as valuable, satisfying, and reflective of our worth.

Fact: The quality of life depends upon the choices we make, moment by moment, to do exactly what we sense is right toward all living things, including God."

2011-06-10T10:33:00.000-05:00

Hey guys,
keep Ju in your prayers...she had an allergic reaction to the medicine that she was put on and she's back in the hospital for the weekend...sans baby. It's got to be a stressful, emotional time for her right now.

Real Quick

2011-06-02T14:17:00.000-05:00

More on the parenting stuff...

Yes, IMPLEMENT with CONSISTENCY & without EMOTION is the HARDEST part of being a parent for me. :-( Grrr.... It is great to reread and refresh. I love Linda Eyre's suggestion for staying consistent:

Make a list of the things that REALLY bother you, the things that cause a responsive or emotive reaction from you. In the next column write what you usually do. And then make a column of what you are going to do in the future instead (the consequence). I think having a list up like that for ME would be very useful and help me stay calm, cool and consistent.

As for the "big event is off" threat (because it usually is a threat more than a consequence when I resort to it) . . . I have told the kids they owe me the money for that lesson. So if the lessons cost $20/month, they owe me $5 for every lesson they miss. If they don't have the money, they do $5 worth of chores. I think I've only had to actually follow through on this consequence once because it's enough to make my kids think.

And Kayli, you summed up my thoughts exactly on the article as well. I, too, doubt my husband will read that much info on parenting . . . but we can always hope! :-)

LOL

CONGRATS

2011-06-01T22:51:00.001-05:00

Congrats to Marilyn on Baby Juniper (I've been checking your blog to see if you would tell us a birthing story--maybe sometime) and congrats to Julia on Baby D!!

Yep

2011-06-01T20:33:00.000-05:00

Let me add my voice to those grateful for the articles you posted. Although there were a few things she said that I thought were going too far (esp. in the Headgates article) I mostly thought her insights were great. I have been trying to implement changes too (like the no re-teaching thing) and it seems effective for both the kids and for me. So thank you for linking to those!

I am just so impressed with all you creative, enthusiastic, fun homeschooling families. I love the idea of it but it all seems so overwhelming and hard, I feel like I would be impatient and non-fun and incapable. Even though I really like my kids and enjoy being with them (more than I ever thought I would!). I love Andrea's ideas for different school units--I want to maybe try some of those this summer.

And I like all your thoughts and book recommendations. I will post some book recommendations too at some point, I hope, when Juniper gets a bit older. I read a lot with a new baby but I don't have much time for typing (always have a baby in one arm at the computer). :) But I want to try reading Bonds that make us Free soon. I started it once before and liked it but it took me forever to get through each part and I never finished.

Parenting

2011-05-31T21:16:00.002-05:00

Kayli, I forgot you had posting rights on this blog! Nice to hear from you. Yeah, I implemented her plan and the first day was JOYOUS! The next day did not go well. Ahem. I was planning on reading it again tonight as a refresher. I think an outline to go on my wall is a good idea. I can refer to it every morning before facing the littles.

As for the swimming lesson comment--I didn't plan on giving them a consequence. I knew I wasn't going to waste my money by not letting them go, but I also thought they would be terrified enough at the thought of missing their lessons that they would snap to. And they did. Lucky me. That only works with REALLY awesome activities. However, they are sort of in the mode now, and every time I say, "It is time to get out the door," Cowen remembers to ask me what he can do to help. I need to go over the procedure with Miriam and Emeline a few more times.

Glad you liked the article. I'm off to read it again.

a post from me

2011-05-31T15:31:00.000-05:00

So, Andrea told me I should read the article Julia posted about parenting, so I did. And WOW. Can I just say that I have been really wondering how on earth it's possible to discipline your child without making them feel like you think/care less for them (let alone not get angry every time you try to correct a behavior). So the whole premise that this is a way to correct and teach obedience without making your child feel like you love or accept them any less was majorly attractive to me. And it seemed a very logical plan to do just that. (Though implementing is always harder than the idea, as we all know.)

Anyway, the other thing I thought was that the idea of planning on your kids failing -and welcoming it as a learning opportunity-- was revolutionary. I mean, wasn't it? I haven't ever heard it put that way. And if you really follow the plan, how great is it that you really truly aren't getting frustrated when your kid does the same bad behavior over and over and over and OVER -- you just continue giving the consequence without having to get all emotional.

That's my opinion on the article. I told Brett to read it so that we could discuss it, implement it, never get angry with our children again, and basically become perfect parents. I'm not really counting on him reading it though, as it's 33 pages long. Perhaps I'll have to sum up for him. (I did take out some particularly good bits and copy them so that I have them. Now does anyone want to draw up a little basic outline for me so I can hang it on my wall and refer to it every day?)

New topic. Does anyone have any tips on how to help your child make friends? An 8-year-old?

Goodnight.

p.s. the Teacher's Funeral by Richard Peck is a great book. I loved it. But then, I pretty much love every Richard Peck. He's fabulous.

Parenting Article

2011-05-25T22:34:00.003-05:00

I'm just now responding to the parenting article Julia posted about. I went to a Love and Logic seminar for school once--all expense paid--but Miriam was only a year old so I didn't get out of it as much as I could have.

I really enjoyed this article. Kami--read it immediately and then call me.

The things I liked best: be consistent. My SIL Lindsay Ann is INCREDIBLY consistent and her girls are so well-behaved (and spastic). I know that is the bottom line of parenting, but it doesn't make it much easier.

I liked her four step approach, especially the don't reteach. I find that the more I lecture the more worked up I get and then the more likely I am to fly off the handle and beat the child. I think her "less is more" philosophy is a good one. No reteaching. No explaining.

I also like that she doesn't give extra chores until her kids are 8. I have been trying the extra chore approach because I have a good friend that does it and it works really well for her. So well that I was impressed and decided to do it myself. It doesn't work at my house. Emeline loves extra chores because it means I have to be right with her helping her (attention), plus she likes to do chores. Cowen doesn't mind chores but HATES getting sent away from me, so he thought the new system was peachy. Miriam would get 16 extra chores a day just for dawdling. She'd dawdle, get an extra chore, dawdle through that and yes, you guessed it, I'd end up a yelling freaky monster by the end of the day.

I think the quick, separate them from what they want to be doing right then is much simpler and doable with 5 small children.

I also love the "tap when dawdling" approach and the report in when done idea. Lately I told my children that I wasn't going to put so much effort in to create fun for them. For example, they love swim lessons but getting them to lessons was a nightmare the first day. The second day I explained to them that getting to lessons was their responsibility and when I said it was time to go, they had to come ask me what they could do to help, do it, return to ask if there was anything else they could do, and so forth until I said everything was ready and get buckled in the van.

It has worked a miracle. Today Cowen was already in the van and buckled before he remembered, but he came back out, found me and asked if there was anything he needed to do. I almost cried.

Basically I just really loved this article.

Now, to IMPLEMENT the ideas in the article. Always the harder part. :) At least now I know what I'm going to do the next time Emeline sticks out her tongue at me or calls me stupid. The child has attitude.

Good night.

Resentment?

2011-05-25T22:27:00.000-05:00

I still have not read the book. I have tried a couple of times, but it hasn't gripped me yet. I may try again . . . but for now, I'll just respond to what you wrote.

I guess I've never looked at the sometimes frequent frustrations with my children as resentment towards them or my life. Usually my frustrations with my kids are based on my own mood, temperment, tiredness, or feelings of inadequacies in myself . . . and none of those are based on "resentment."

However, I did have a similar realization several months ago with regards to my marriage. I found I was resentful of J. in many, many ways but mostly with the idea that he "needed" me. Why did a grown man need me?!?! Especially when he had to obviously see I had many little children needing me all the time. I first realized how poorly I was behaving and how I was harboring such harsh judgments while observing my own mother and how she treated my dad. I realized that some unhealthy patterns had been set. I noticed there was constant blame or resentment or the attitude of "I'm doing everything for his sake" rather than claiming her life as her own. Does that make sense?

What I'm trying to say is . . . I like what you wrote. I like the quotes. And I've had similar thoughts/feelings but not in regards to my children . . . more towards my husband. And once I realized the resentments I was harboring and let them go, our marriage took a 180 turn! It was amazing!!! (then I got pregnant again . . . but that soon shall pass). I literally fell in love with him all over again! No more holding things over his head as if it was his fault I wasn't completely happy. Anyway . . . those are my thoughts. And like I said, I haven't read the book, so maybe my thoughts don't match your thoughts . . . but this is what your thoughts made me think of. :-)

LOL
JULIA

Bonds That Make Us Free: Chapter 7

2011-05-25T15:58:00.002-05:00

Favorite quotes from today's reading.

Pg. 129: ". . . in large measure our humanity consists in our ability to sense and respect and respond to the humanity of others."

Pg. 130: "What does it take to achieve such emotional intimacy? The fundamental ingredient is an awakening of each individual to others and a willing effort to respond without any personal agenda in exactly the way that seems most right, considerate, and helpful."

Pg. 139: "This is the moral skepticism of a corrupted conscience, which experiences doing right by others as a drudge, a sacrifice, a favoring of others' needs over one's own--or else a self-righteous project for 'goody-goodies.' As we have seen, doing the right thing is never an easy, natural, welcomed opportunity for a corrupted conscience."

Pg. 146: ". . . When we abandon our resentments, we no longer live in a resented world. Others become real to us. We have a sense of how they feel and what will please them. and pleasing them is what we desire to do, because we have put away our resentment. That's precisely what happened to both Glen and Becky, each responding with more sensitivity and care to the other's growing sensitivity and care."

This chapter reminded me of the commandment to love others like we love ourselves--or, in this author's lexicon--be aware of other people's needs and meet them without feeling proud of ourselves for doing so or resentful because we had to. I'm trying to wrap my brain around what it would feel like to serve my children without feeling resentful of things like poopy underwear or a certain chatterbox being glued to my elbow. It seems so hard to take care of them because they ALWAYS need me. This isn't a friend needing a cup of sugar type deal--or even giving a kidney. This is an every day, energy sucking, demands-making, 110% commitment to other people. Mothers of young children have to CAREFULLY STRATEGIZE TO TAKE A SHOWER. In reading this book, I have the sense of truth as I read, but it is hard to imagine actually serving my family day in and day out without resenting any of it.

Yes, I recognize I chose to be a mom. Yes, I recognize I decided to have 5 children. Yes, I understand that the most important commandments have to do with serving others. It is the putting it into practice that I'm struggling with.

Anyway, this book has really made me step back and think about myself and my interactions with other people. I do remember a time when I wasn't so guarded in my personal interactions. I remember feeling so much happier then. I want that person back.

Thoughts?

Bonds That Make Us Free: Part One

2011-05-24T15:27:00.004-05:00

This is Part One because I haven't read the whole thing yet. So far, here are my favorite quotes:

Pg. 54: "Thus life's being hard does not force us to adopt a resentful attitude. Life becomes hard to bear only when we, as self-betrayers, cast ourselves in a victim's role by regarding others as our victimizers and nurse our misfortunes as if they were badges of honor. I think of self-betrayal as a form of subtle self-destruction because it obliterates the open and generous individuals we can and ought to be--and all for this paltry mess of pottage, the unsteady and impermanent feeling of justification in wrongdoing."

What I gather from that is when I blame my children for my being a stressed-out basket-case all the time, I am hugging my "victimhood" close and not accepting responsibility for my response to the demands of small children. So I shouldn't mutter "You make my life so hard!" in my head anymore, but change that statement to, "This too shall pass" or something. Also, I shouldn't say, "Lindsay Ann is the best mother I know--she should raise my children so they turn out decent," and instead I should think, "Lindsay Ann is the best mother I know--I should take responsibility for myself and try to do the things she does that I admire."

Here's another favorite passage on page 94: "We have seen that our accusations give those we accuse good reason to do the very thing we are blaming them for. This fact has a most astounding implication: Generally speaking, we share responsibility for the way we are treated. If we want to know what impact we are having on others, we need only to examine their responses to us. . .. I am talking about the treatment we get from people we live or work with day to day. In general, the more closely we are involved with someone, the more the principle applies. To see ourselves, we need only to look at others' reactions to us.

So it is our attitude and feeling toward others that gives them provocation and excuse for doing what we are blaming them for. This principle can be expressed in this brief maxim: Seeing other people as the problem is the problem."

I've been thinking a lot about the above statement. I see how it applies very well to a marital relationship. When I am flirty and fun, Timothy responds positively--when I am willing to be vulnerable, we have better discussions about issues. When I am grouchy and try to "protect myself," invariably Timothy gets grumpier.

An example of this. I've been struggling with hormones this post-partum period, so I've been grumpy A LOT lately. A day or so ago, Timothy put the kids to bed and very gently patted my shoulder and suggested I take Mr. Wilson on a walk so I could be out in the sunshine. A day or so after that he reminded me, when I was on the computer, that I had asked him to help me make better decisions about going to bed at a reasonable hour (my rational decision making ability is pretty much nil right now). He was so kind. I immediately WANTED to be happier, just for him. I was reflecting the way he was treating me.

So, I really do believe the author has a point. I've really started to think about my relationship with my in-laws through this lens. I love my in-laws, they are great and try super hard to show us how much they love us. However, we communicate in very different ways and I have often been guilty of thinking "Why don't they just communicate!!!" Maybe I'm not communicating with them--or maybe I am responding negatively when they do communicate and so now they feel they have to protect themselves. I have to think about this more because, as the author stated, when you are acting in a self-betraying manner, you don't have a good perception of reality.

However, I am not sure how this applies to the parent-child relationship. I see the obvious connections--like how my yelling makes it okay for them to yell and my treating them in certain ways causes them to have to protect themselves, thereby shutting down our relationship in some aspects.

But some things are just kid things--like Emeline sticking out her tongue at me when I sent her to the corner. Every single interaction doesn't have to be evaluated through this lens, does it? Or does it? If I have to scrutinize every interaction I have with my children to see if I acted according to my conscience, I'll give up inside a day because the REASON I am reading this book is because I stink at motherhood and I do the wrong thing 98% of the time. How do you change so radically in your interactions with your kids that you become the generous, kind person that the author describes?

Okay--sorry. I haven't read the rest of the book and the author says he gives some ideas on how to become more true to yourself. I'm off to read the next chapter. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Parenting and Habits

2011-05-23T00:23:00.000-05:00

I'm noticing as my kids get older that I'm not so much into the "life skills" lessons that I once was. Part of that is because I'm not consistent enough (my weakness). But what I'm realizing for myself is that I'd rather go back to the basics of simply training HABITS in my kids (a Charlotte Mason idea). I'm noticing (and the article on parenting I just posted about reinforced what I've been thinking) that the things that bug me the most and cause the most nagging from me toward my children are the little things that don't get done around the house. For instance, how hard is it to turn off a light when you leave a room, throw away your banana peel when you're done with it, and put your piano books away after practicing? These are the things I maybe should have focussed on in a more productive way than I have (because my oldest is 11!). These are things I failed to focus on when they were little and yet I expect them to "just do it" now that they are older. I guess when they were little I just expected them not to remember these little details OR it was just easier for me to do it all myself. Maybe it's because I had so many so close together.

After reading the article on parenting I was struck by one main principle: You only need to TEACH once. The rest of the time you simply need to reinforce with consistent consequences. It seems so simple, but it's so dang hard for me! I'm such a talker. I nag, preach, teach over and over. I like how the author signified that all the re-teaching does is tell the kids they can't think for themselves, like they're too unintelligent to remember the first time.

The other thing I liked about the article was that we can/need to expect our kids to fail. I think for me, when I see my kids fail at doing something I taught them, it's somehow a reflection on my lack of teaching (even though I know I taught them). Does that make sense? And so I express frustration towards them when they fail, when in reality I'm frustrated partly with myself for not teaching them properly. Again, I just expect them to do it and to do it perfectly when I ask them to do something .. . forgetting that there needs to be a training process first. I forget that I had to learn things line upon line . . . and even then I still don't do everything right.

So, I now have two main goals: 1) Stop nagging & start teaching more effectively with consequences; 2) Focus on the smaller habits rather than trying to tackle all of the bigger lessons (for now).

p.s. this is all going to start after the baby comes...because right now I'm too tired! :-)

Food for Thought

2011-05-21T18:06:00.000-05:00

Hi Friends.

I don't know how many of you read the Headgates article a year or so ago, written by Kerri Tibbets. Well, she just came out with another article on Parenting. I read it. It's got some good stuff in it. Nothing really "new" to me, but there were some things in there I have been chewing on for the last couple of days. It's just good to read some reminder stuff. Anyway, here's the link for both articles. Take a look. We can discuss.
http://www.headgates.org/resources/

JULIA

Response

2011-05-17T19:44:00.003-05:00

Well I think Andrea's main idea of personal preference nails it. For instance, I don't want to let my kids touch my sewing machine at any younger age. If I had another sewing machine that was just for them, then it would be okay. Also, Ana's been mowing the lawn since she was 10 (generally only the front yard though, which is smaller and easier than the back). And, I really don't care if my kids are interested in playing the piano or any other instrument. Not playing is not an option--or at least till they're teenagers but I'm not telling them that till it actually becomes an issue. Again with the food prep, I hate cleaning up after other people cooking, so until they can clean up really well, I don't want them doing much cooking. Yes, I'm a bit too nitpicky but I hate a dirty kitchen. And I do think I will move some of the 16 yr old stuff to 15 yr old. That's a great idea. A=Oh, and as for doing their own laundry, I put that later only because my oldest is very inattentive to details, and I am really worried about the possible clothes destruction that could result. She barely remembers on what settings to turn on the dishwasher. Anyway, that's my thinking, but thanks for the input--and please any other input would be great!

response to Kami

2011-05-17T15:03:00.002-05:00

I liked most of the things but I couldn't help thinking that a lot of it is personal. For example, Kelly said no to piano at 6 but that is when I started Miriam and it has worked out beautifully. She loves piano and can't wait to start the harp when she is 10. However, Cowen isn't starting piano until he is 8.

Also, Miriam is 7 and already knows how to make several breakfasts, sew on a button, has made a tablecloth and napkins and is making two receiving blankets this year. So I am doing sewing a little earlier. There was a girl featured in the Friend this month who is 9 who made a bunch of skirts to donate to Haiti. So again, I think your sewing could be moved to a younger age IF you want to deal with it at a younger age. Won't really hurt them to start later--they'll just have better coordination.

Miriam is just starting to get brushing down, so I don't think that taking care of her own hair at 8 is really that reasonable. Maybe I'm underestimating her. What is Faith in God??????

I'm having my kids memorize the Articles of Faith during their Baptism Prep year (age 7) and then they have to re-memorize them every year during their birthday month. I figure if I do it that way, by the time they are 12 they will know them cold.

I also think you are underestimating food prep. Miriam can already cook a bag of frozen corn and she cuts up mushrooms and zucs and other soft veggies for me. She can peel a carrot or cucumber, so I don't know if "cook a veggie" needs to wait until 9. However, it is a lot of when YOU want to deal with it.

I agree with Kelly that mow lawn is too young. All my kids can already fold clothes (tho they hate it more than any other chore), so you might want to move that to a little younger. (What am I saying, my oldest is 7 and you have a 10 year old--ignore everything I say.)

I like the idea of shopping for own clothes at 12, so I think I would make age 11 a Shopper-in-Training, and do some intensive preparation for the responsibility. You know, lessons on sales and fashion and marketing and modesty.

How DO you check the fluids in your vehicles????

I reiterate that I think you are teaching cooking too late. Remember what Mom said when I told her my grand plan--that by age 12 they are already getting snarky. It might be a LOT more work to teach them cooking later. Then again, maybe not. Depends on the kid. But I was planning on turning over bread-making to Miriam when she turned 10 and she would be in charge of it until Cowen turned 10. That will give them two years of practice (I'm sure I'll help out sometimes) because break-making is a bit of an art and practice with mom around is a good idea.

At 12 I was thinking of letting them learn fancy stuff, like take a cake decorating class, or teach them how to do some fun Asian wok cooking.

Also, I would say laundry could be younger. Miriam already puts the laundry in the dryer for me and can do the separating. She has a hard time with the soap for the washer because it doesn't come out easily, but when I make my own she'll be in charge. Yes!! Plus, at this age, it is a huge treat to do laundry.

I would move menu planning to a younger age. By 15 I was always in a play plus three choirs plus school work--I was already too busy to be doing much at home. I think critical things like menu planning and learning how to shop sales has to be taught before they hit the really busy high school years. Okay, I just saw that you wrote "in the summer" but I still think it should be when they are 13 and that kind of responsibility would thrill them.

I would move a lot of your 16 year stuff to 15 year stuff.

But again, I know nothing about anything. Love you though, and your list, and that you got out of doing other work to make your list so I could postpone my dishes to read through your list. You rock.

I need chocolate. Just FYI. Sigh.

feedback

2011-05-17T13:13:00.002-05:00

Ah...a topic close to my heart. And the bane of mothers everywhere - determining how much can I reasonably expect of this child. My thoughts are only regarding if I think a child is fairly capable at that age. Whether or not I would choose to do it at that age or another I only mention a few times for perspective.

Three Years Old - Yes to all

Dress Self

Toilet Trained

Pick up toys

Say prayers

Help fold towels

Help unload silverware from dishwasher

Help set table

Four Years Old - Yes to all

Brush teeth

Make bed

Dust room

Help unload dishes from dishwasher

Set the table

Help clear the table

Five Years Old - vacuuming might be difficult. Too heavy or too hard to see. I see it as more a physical difficulty than a mental maturity issue. But I have short kids, so that might be just me. My eight year old struggles, still, though he's about as big as a six year old. ;-)

Straighten room

Vacuum

Fold towels

Start earning money

Help with Saturday’s chores

Six Years Old - I wouldn't do piano lessons. I believe that a child can learn pretty much anything at any age if you have the right teaching style. I think unless the child is highly motivated (HIGHLY) you would be hard-pressed to find a teacher who can do it well. Suzuki possibly. But will they stick with it, or get burned out? In my experience, children who start later suffer fewer burnout issues (they are better at determining their interest level) and learn faster. Phone calls - yes, but can't take messages until can write legibly and can spell decently (IMO).

Load dishwasher

Empty dishwasher

Begin Piano lessons

Run microwave

Make and answer phone calls

Wash dishes except pans

Seven Years Old - YES

Floss teeth

Saturday’s Chore

Pull weeds

Memorize phone and address

Eight Years Old - YES. Age 8 is when we start the Bank of Dad for the kids to deposit their money in.

Grooming hair and nails

Read scriptures daily

Savings Account

Wash all dishes

Start Faith in God

Clean stove

Maintain personal journal

Nine Years Old - YES

Hammer nails

Saw wood

Cook vegetables

Write letters

Use e-mail

Rake leaves

Plant plants

Ten Years Old - Just barely taught my 12 year old to mow lawn, don't think my 10 year old is strong enough yet. She does do her own laundry (start to finish), makes breakfast every morning for our family, makes lunch if asked, and enjoys baking on her own (though still makes forgetful mistakes occasionally)

Set personal goals

Make several salads

Basic nutrition

Place a collect call

Use a payphone

Wrap presents

Sew buttons

Mow lawn

Fold clothes

Make lunches

Vacuum interior of car

Eleven Years Old - Generally, YES to all, assuming they've been probably trained. The oven job sounds hard, but probably possible.

Arrange for own haircuts

Clean refrigerator inside

First Aid training

Babysitting class

Cook breakfast during summer (3x’s weekly)

Clean oven

Know Articles of Faith

Complete Faith in God

Practice creative writing during summer

Learn countries and capitals

Twelve Years Old - I started doing my own clothes shopping around then - or when it started mattering to me more what I wore. That's when my mom got frustrated and just gave me a lump sum and sent me with my grandma. At age 14 I earned money all summer in order to be able to buy all my own clothes. My mom only bought a few necessities through my entire high school career. I think kids this age can start keeping a personal calendar, but most of them don't carry a planner or something - it's all in their heads so there are going to be slip-ups.

Shop for own clothing

Basic fashion awareness

Wardrobe planning

Current events during summer

Practice public speaking during summer

Make/keep dentist appts.

Make/keep doctor appts.

Keep personal calender

Understand basic filing

Order something by phone

Order something by mail

Order something by internet

Read Book of Mormon through

Start Priesthood or YW’s programs

Check fluids in car

Learn basic mending

Bake rolls, bread, cake

Learn how to do laundry

Thirteen Years Old - YES

Sew simple items

Shopping and sales

Party planning

Start own recipe files

Plant care

Use ATM

Certify for CPR

Go to movies w/o parent

Understand prescriptions

Learn meat-handling rules

Learn etiquette rules

Musical intrument of choice

Make dinner during summer (3x’s weekly)

during summer

Fourteen Years Old - YES

Decorate room-learn to paint etc.

Basic interior decorating

Memorize S.S. number

Understand and use debit card

Learn interest, debt, securities

Learn about make-up (girls)

Learn basic civics and politics

Accompany parent to vote

Structural household repair

Sell items on internet

Memorize Seminary scriptures

May go to dances

May purchase Ipod

Fifteen Years Old YES

Pay household bills

Grocery shopping during summer

Plan menus during summer

Budgeting

Finish Eagle Scout (boys)

Change flat tire

Basic car operation

Learn to fill car with gas

Sixteen Years Old YES

Get driver’s license

Understand credit cards

Learn retirement plans

Resume preparation

Interviewing

Understand advertising

Career planning

Arrange for car insurance

Household repairs

Assist in purchasing car

Checking account

File tax return

Landscape planning

May have cell phone (must pay for it yourself)

Get a job!

May date in a group

Seventeen Years Old YES

Finish Young Women in Excellence

Apply for University

Finish Duty to God

FEEDBACK PLEASE!!!!!

2011-05-17T12:15:00.003-05:00

I read The Parenting Breakthrough and loved the idea of having a master plan. Mostly because my oldest daughter NEEDS a list to remember and work on things. Plus then I won't forget either what I want my kids to be learning or what my other kids have done. So here's the list I made using Merrilee Boyack's list as a basis. This is a bit murky too, because some things, like making breakfast I plan to make them do that one summer only, and then just whenever I need help after that, but they won't have to make breakfast 3x's a week for forever after that. While other things like practice an instrument, that will start and carry through till they graduate high school. And then other things, Boyack explains better in her book, like giving her kids a certain amount of money ever year to purchase their school clothes and then anything after that they have to pay for themselves, and of course that would require planning and budgeting and bargain shopping, etc. Or with decorating their room, she again gave them a budget and they had to learn to paint or wallpaper and redecorate their room. (I don't know if we'd have the means to do this, but I think it's a cool idea. ) I had a hard time at certain ages coming up with things, (7, 15) but I had taken a lot out at those ages from her list. So please tell me what you think, and if I should somehow rearrange or add or delete anything, what you would do differently etc.

Three Years Old

Dress Self

Toilet Trained

Pick up toys

Say prayers

Help fold towels

Help unload silverware from dishwasher

Help set table

Four Years Old

Brush teeth

Make bed

Dust room

Help unload dishes from dishwasher

Set the table

Help clear the table

Five Years Old

Straighten room

Vacuum

Fold towels

Start earning money

Help with Saturday’s chores

Six Years Old

Load dishwasher

Empty dishwasher

Begin Piano lessons

Run microwave

Make and answer phone calls

Wash dishes except pans

Seven Years Old

Floss teeth

Saturday’s Chore

Pull weeds

Memorize phone and address

Eight Years Old

Grooming hair and nails

Read scriptures daily

Savings Account

Wash all dishes

Start Faith in God

Clean stove

Maintain personal journal

Nine Years Old

Hammer nails

Saw wood

Cook vegetables

Write letters

Use e-mail

Rake leaves

Plant plants

Ten Years Old

Set personal goals

Make several salads

Basic nutrition

Place a collect call

Use a payphone

Wrap presents

Sew buttons

Mow lawn

Fold clothes

Make lunches

Vacuum interior of car

Eleven Years Old

Arrange for own haircuts

Clean refrigerator inside

First Aid training

Babysitting class

Cook breakfast during summer (3x’s weekly)

Clean oven

Know Articles of Faith

Complete Faith in God

Practice creative writing during summer

Learn countries and capitals

Twelve Years Old

Shop for own clothing

Basic fashion awareness

Wardrobe planning

Current events during summer

Practice public speaking during summer

Make/keep dentist appts.

Make/keep doctor appts.

Keep personal calender

Understand basic filing

Order something by phone

Order something by mail

Order something by internet

Read Book of Mormon through

Start Priesthood or YW’s programs

Check fluids in car

Learn basic mending

Bake rolls, bread, cake

Learn how to do laundry

Thirteen Years Old

Sew simple items

Shopping and sales

Party planning

Start own recipe files

Plant care

Use ATM

Certify for CPR

Go to movies w/o parent

Understand prescriptions

Learn meat-handling rules

Learn etiquette rules

Musical intrument of choice

Make dinner during summer (3x’s weekly)

during summer

Fourteen Years Old

Decorate room-learn to paint etc.

Basic interior decorating

Memorize S.S. number

Understand and use debit card

Learn interest, debt, securities

Learn about make-up (girls)

Learn basic civics and politics

Accompany parent to vote

Structural household repair

Sell items on internet

Memorize Seminary scriptures

May go to dances

May purchase Ipod

Fifteen Years Old

Pay household bills

Grocery shopping during summer

Plan menus during summer

Budgeting

Finish Eagle Scout (boys)

Change flat tire

Basic car operation

Learn to fill car with gas

Sixteen Years Old

Get driver’s license

Understand credit cards

Learn retirement plans

Resume preparation

Interviewing

Understand advertising

Career planning

Arrange for car insurance

Household repairs

Assist in purchasing car

Checking account

File tax return

Landscape planning

May have cell phone (must pay for it yourself)

Get a job!

May date in a group

Seventeen Years Old

Finish Young Women in Excellence

Apply for University

Finish Duty to God

Finding our passion

2011-05-15T09:40:00.002-05:00

We've talked about this a bit. This web article popped up on my horizon this morning and I thought I'd share.

http://michaelhyatt.com/find-your-passion-in-three-steps.html

Clean Your House!

2011-05-05T18:22:00.001-05:00

Hey guys!

So I just started reading a book that I wanted to share with you. It's called "Home Comforts: The Art & Science of Keeping House" by Cheryl Mendelson. The book is basically an encyclopedic reference for how to do all those little things - proper table setting, fabric care, bill paying, etc. Everything that anyone might need to know about keeping house. But the first chapter explains why it is a good thing to keep house. Talk about validation for (what feels like) my main existence on this planet right now! It was wonderful. The author is a non-LDS lawyer so you're not getting the eternal perspective like we often get in RS Meeting - but that almost made it better for me. I had to share some things that I particularly enjoyed:

"Housekeeping creates cleanliness, order, regularity, beauty, the conditions for health and safety,...it is your housekeeping that makes your home alive, that turns it into a small society in its own right, a vital place with its own ways and rhythms, the place where you can be yourself."

"No one is too superior or intelligent to care for hearth and home." (Regarding modern feminist views)

Routines bring satisfaction. Routines echo the rhythm of life and body.

Housekeeping requires knowledge and intelligence as well, the kind that is complex, not simple, and combines intellect, intuition, and feelings.

Our homes are the center of our lives, and we should allow time and resources to make the most of them that we can...we should avoid thinking that time spent on our homes is wasted time, or that our goal should always be to reduce the time and effort we spend on them.

"The act of taking care of our homes brings comfort and consolation both in the enjoyment of the fruits of our labor and in the increasingly rare freedom to engage in worthwhile, unalienated, honorable work."

"Good housekeepers are listmakers."

This is not a book about decorating or being overly neat. It's not a book about organizing. It's a book of knowledge. The proper care of a home whether you stay home with kids or work a full-time job.

I have been cleaning and straightening today and enjoying the feel of a clean space. If you're needing some motivation and validation - I recommend chapter one. If you just think knowing more about the job would make it run smoother - I recommend the rest of the book. I haven't gotten very far through that part yet. Just skimming bits and pieces and looking for the things that I find necessary to my life. So I skipped the sections on hosting a formal dinner (table-setting) because not only do I do that rarely, but my mom did a pretty good job of teaching me how to do it if I ever wanted to.

Wimp

2011-05-03T09:48:00.000-05:00

Kami, don't be a wimp. I checked out the Bonds that Make Us Free and you should read it too. There are discussion questions at the back I've been answering in my journal, but it would be interesting to see what others had to say. School schmool--check it out and read it.

Response to my post a long time ago....

2011-05-02T21:34:00.000-05:00

I just wanted to say that my thoughts were pretty clearly answered by Elder Oaks talk on Desire.

Here's the link for anyone interested.

And I started back to school at BYU so I wouldn't be free reading any time soon.

Thanks for all your comments on my previous post by the way. I wrote down the book selections, and it did give me some insight and things to think over.

Response to Kelly

2011-04-21T16:23:00.002-05:00

I think scheduling a day during the month to clean is pretty brilliant. Especially for the "nothing hanging over your head" reason she listed. We've been doing "Saturday's work" on Friday for awhile now so we didn't waste "Tim time." But I've found that a little frustrating because then it feels like I'm the only one who has to get the kids to work. I get tired of forcing people to do things. I also don't like it because it uses up a school day that I'd rather use to do fun school things--like art and music appreciation.

The only thing that worries me is trying to get that much cleaning done in one day. Ouch. Miriam can clean a bathroom but I like to do it every other time to make sure it is done really well. If she did it one month it would be like two months with a subpar bathroom. Then again--I could probably get used to that. :) I'm going to have to toy with this idea and see what I think. It would be a long day every month. It would open up Saturdays during the summer to more yard work without feeling like we are trying to accomplish everything inside and out in one day.

I'm glad there is another homeschooler in the world that doesn't do academic subjects until the afternoon. I like to do other things in the morning--piano, devotional, music time, and then a group activity based on science or history. The afternoon is for math, LA, spelling, handwriting, etc.

Once a Month Cleaning

2011-04-21T13:45:00.000-05:00

I wrote a blog post on this article I read (see below). Do you guys spend much time thinking about this? I really function better with a certain level of cleanliness. I think everyone has different levels and that's great. My mom was helping a sister in her ward clean and pack before a move and she was, well, horrified by the state of that sister's house. She called me wondering if her priorities were totally whacked and if she had incredibly high standards of cleanliness and perfection that no one could ever hope to meet. Uh, no. She just had a different standard.

But my actual thoughts were more along the lines of balancing the need to have a relatively clean house that's used and lived in but not trashed, and the need to have time to do the fun stuff in life. We were talking about the adult skills and the reason I have not done them as much as I would prefer is really a matter of time constraints.

So currently my basic daily schedule looks something like this:
8am Morning Prep (dressed, bed, breakfast scriptures, family prayer, etc)
9am Family Work (includes music practice for older kids - they do jobs when they are done practicing)
11-ish Free time for 30-60 min depending on how quickly we work
12pm lunch
1pm school
extra-curricular activities - usually start at 3pm and go till 5pm on various days of the week. This is the time when I start thinking about dinner so even if we don't have any outside activities, I'm loathe to start a major project at this time. If the kids are home, they are playing or reading.
5:30pm Dinner and clean up
family time
8pm bedtime!

So what occurred to me as I read this article was that if I could cut my cleaning time down to 30 minutes each morning, we would have 2 full hours available for projects/adult skills/reading, etc.

The article is linked from my blog.
http://coastcrew.blogspot.com/2011/04/once-month-cleaning.html

might be awhile

2011-04-20T16:40:00.000-05:00

I don't know anything about the book, Ju. I requested it but I'm number 126. Based on the number of copies available I'm like 8 in line....we'll see.

I'm curious to know what's so good about it!

Must Read Book

2011-04-20T16:18:00.000-05:00

You all need to get Battle Hymn of a Tiger Mother by Amy Chua.
I'm reading it right now and want to discuss it with all of you.
Get it. Read it. If you already haven't.
julia

Gospel Study

2011-04-16T17:21:00.000-05:00

Kelly - that's so funny you mentioned Sunday night gospel study time because J. and I were just discussing this same dilemma of older kids and younger kids. I told him, "Why don't we try doing an older gospel discussion on Sunday nights with the kids and have a younger FHE for the littler ones on Monday?" We haven't started yet, it was still in the discussion process. BUT it's nice to know that is successful and something worth trying. :-) Thanks for that!

And, I agree with Andrea that time management is very much personality. John (11) and Addie (8) were born with internal "get it done and play the rest of the day" mentalities. They love, love, love checklists and just "get" the concept of time. Brooklynn and Joel are both a bit more flighty in how they manage their time.

And, I didn't mean to discourage you from trying the planner, Andrea! :-) It just might be what Miriam needs right now . . . or not . . . but like you said, if you don't try it, you'll never know! :-) I will be doing the same thing this year with my kids, so we can compare and contrast what works and what doesn't. I also want my kids recording better what they learned each day (like a commonplace book of sorts). I was thinking one thing that might work for my kids is after dinner saying, "Okay, now you can go record what you learned today or you can help clean the kitchen." This would just be for the older three while the younger two would help clean the kitchen. It's a thought I might try.

Anyway, I think again, with time management and planning a lot of it is really learned by Mom setting the example. But it's like Andrea has said, too, about how Miriam doesn't pick up on how to spell by reading like others do. Some kids just don't pick up on things by observing others. A couple of my kids are like that with spelling, too, and so I have to "drill" them rather than just say "keep on reading." Does that analogy make any sense?

Okay, that's all I have to say.
JULIA

Sunday Night Gospel Study

2011-04-16T10:21:00.000-05:00

I wish I could claim this idea as my own!

Awhile back I was bemoaning the fact that when we do FHE it never turns out right anymore. We have a 12 year old and a 2 year old and three ages in between. How do you have a successful FHE with so many ages, attention spans, and interests!!??!!

My friend, Katie, said that in her family they had Sunday Night Gospel Study for the older kids and then on Monday night a very brief (BRIEF) lesson for the little ones that's totally age-appropriate followed by lots of family fun. She lets the younger kids practically run Monday night - they pretty much do anything that appeals to the youngest kids (they pick the songs, the activity, etc).

So we tried it. It's been fabulous for us. My 12 and 11 (10 when we started) year olds are pretty much required to come. My just-turned-eight year old son is allowed to come but not required. We do it after the littles have gone to bed. We've studied from Preach My Gospel, For Strength of Youth, Conference Talks, Scriptures, etc. Whatever we feel is important - usually sticking to one for awhile before switching - based on the needs of our kids. It's been a great way to reach the needs of both age groups without boring anyone to tears. FHE has been so much less frustrating for us!

**************

Andrea, I had some ideas about teaching time management. Maybe you've already tried them or ruled them out, but here's what I was thinking.

Talking about time. Such as, asking how long she thinks it will take to complete a certain job from start to finish, then timing. My kids are always pleasantly surprised. Using a timer that she can carry around with her. Breaking tasks into very manageable pieces - maybe written out with a check box.

I've been trying to work on the same concept with my kids. They are required to come to me when a job is done and ask if there is anything else that they can do. If they don't come, even if the job is done, then I always give them an extra job purely as a consequence to not coming. If I notice that they are playing before the job is done, they also get an extra job. Logan - my most distracted kid - is getting really good at remembering. It's also a lot of fun to tell him that he's DONE and can go play.

Recently I was reading an article - can't remember where! - that was a person talking about their jobs as a kid. They said that their mother always gave them the "fun" jobs. Her feeling was that anyone could clean the kitchen and wash the dishes, so she gave her kids the jobs that sounded more exciting and involved learning a new skill. I thought the idea was interesting, and it inspired me to make sure that I remember to give my kids jobs that catch their attention. For example, I love organizing so I usually keep those jobs for myself and give my kids something else, like the garbages to empty. What I've discovered is that my 11 year old not only loves to organize but is GOOD at it. The other day I had planned to go through the toy bucket while they were cleaning the play room. She asked if she could do it instead. She not only did a wonderful and thorough job (she tossed more toys out than I would have dared), but she enjoyed it. I picked up the play room and starting sorting through some old papers that I wouldn't have had a chance to sort through if I'd been organizing.

Time Revisited

2011-04-15T22:43:00.004-05:00

I think I misled everyone from the comments Julia and Kelly made and the phone call I got from Kami Sue. I don't think giving Miriam a planner and having her write in it will accomplish anything right away--or for years. The reason I want to do it is to start the process of her figuring out that she can control time instead of time controlling her. She's a huge dawdler and is always getting extra chores for getting off task. That's enough actual punishment/reward time management training for right now, I think. But, for her, I think it is going to be really important for me to teach time management and not expect her to just pick it up naturally. Cowen, on the other hand, already knows and implements the concept of "if I get my chore done fast then I have more time to play." Miriam doesn't get it yet. So I think "time awareness" is part age and part personality. Again, my purpose is just to start the teaching process about time.

Anyway, it might end up being a bad idea and I'll get on here in a year and say it was a stupid idea. But, I'm going to try it anyway! I won't know how it will end up until I give it a whirl.

Kelly--what is Sunday night gospel study? I want to know more.

Andrea

Time, cont.

2011-04-14T09:09:00.000-05:00

So I just have to wonder - because I really don't know - what are appropriate expectations for kids regarding time? For instance, it makes sense that a teenager should be able to get themselves somewhere on time. I can see that ability developing in my almost-thirteen-year-old. She is starting to remember where she needs to be, and when, and make sure that I get her there. But not always. On the other hand, my ten year old is still very much dependent on me saying that it's time to get ready to go to _________. However, she can be ready in a decent amount of time. If I say to be ready to leave the house in five minutes, she will be ready.

I am not sure what sorts of time issues you feel your children are failing in. Are they having a hard time staying focused on the task at hand, getting distracted, and not finishing in a reasonable amount of time? That sounds EXACTLY like my son, who is 8. He manages to keep from getting distracted if it's something that he really wants to do (or has a visible reward attached - such as if we hurry and get these errands run we'll have time to stop at the park afterwards). But he isn't managing time himself.

Developmentally, I'm not really sure what to expect from kids. Rafe is teaching 5th graders, so his expectations would be different than mine would be for my 2nd/3rd grader. But I'm not sure exactly what those would be.

Or, are you just talking about school and not about other areas of life? The person who introduced me to homeschooling used to just put her kids' weekly work in little boxes and they managed their own time. Having 20 worksheets to do on Friday was a really quick lesson about the benefits of doing a little bit every day. I guess it worked for her. I never really asked her. Managing time and studies sounds like a very mature ability. I don't know about your kids, but my son is still just getting comfortable with telling time - much less gauging it.

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Regarding virtues: I just got a book I requested through PaperBackSwap called "365 Manners Kids Should Know". I am going through a couple of them every week. It's laid out in an interesting format - one lesson per day - for the parent - on a manner they should teach their child. So far I like it. I had though to actually do one lesson per day with my kids, but I think they need time to practice each one and the opportunity to get enough practice in doesn't always arise - plus I only want to be harping on one thing at a time. ;-) We started with how to greet people, particularly adults (smile, make eye-contact, shake their hand, and use their name - Mr. or Mrs. for anyone over 18).

We use the Eyres book for FHE sometimes. We're also going through "For Strength of Youth" for our Sunday night Gospel study with the older kids. I like President Hinckley's book as a devotional idea. I'll have to go find it - it's on those bookshelves somewhere!

**********

One last thing. The other day I did a totally random, must have been inspired, devotional about scripture study. Usually in the morning we sing a bunch of primary songs and hymns, then read a scripture or talk about a picture in the GAK (trying to keep it geared towards the little ones). That day I decided to talk about the importance of studying scriptures. I likened scriptures to salad, and other books to dessert. If we eat/read nothing but dessert - it might taste good for awhile but over the long-run it's not really that good for us. We should eat our salad first and make sure we're getting the important nutrients before moving on to dessert. I challenged the kids to eat their salad every day before moving on to dessert. My kids actually like salad, (literally), so this was an okay metaphor for them. If your kids don't like salad it might not work. ;-) It's been really helpful - especially when we're helping by reminding them. Saying "don't forget your salad" sounds so much nicer than "you better read your scriptures"!! And, it's been a joy to stumble across my kids with their scriptures pulled out as soon as family work is done.

More on Time

2011-04-13T17:13:00.000-05:00

So, I have a blog I visit frequently called Tale of our Quest. Here's what she says about getting her kids to recognize time (i.e. work faster):

The way I have chosen to help them work faster (getting their morning list done on time or cleaning the kitchen before the timer beeps) is that they get an item or more for every minute that goes past the allotted time. Right now, morning lists and breakfast (Bud is in charge of making breakfast this week and Spice of making the smoothie) need to be done by 8 am. I know they are done when a child says, "Mom, do you need anything else?" and then, "Okay, I'm done, will you check my work?" At this time, I check their work and if it is done right, I look at the clock. If it is past 8am - they get to pick up as many items as the number of minutes past.

The first time I did this, I gave no warnings since they had already been taught to do it before 8. Around 8:20, Bud came and said, "I'm done with my morning list." I said, "No you're not, you forgot the last two items. He said, "Oh yeah, do you need anything else?" I asked him to get the baby dressed. Then he said, "Okay, I'm done, will you come check my work." I did and it passed so I looked at the clock and it said about 8:35 so he got 35 items to pick up. The other kids saw what happened so they hurried and finished and got to pick up the number of items they earned. The next day, everyone had their morning list done by 8.

In the kitchen - since they only have 10 minutes to have it cleaned (15 for whoever has dishes - I'll help if there are a lot of dishes) - they earn 5 items per minute that they go over. I'm enjoying not having to say, "Hurry guys, you only have 5 minutes left", etc. I just let the timer do the teaching and I stay quiet. This is much more effective. They are learning so fast!

The same rule applies to when I ring the bell for a meal. They come right away and wash their hands and set the table. If they don't, they earn 10 items or more depending on the circumstances.

p.s. I got a planner/calendar for Brooklynn this year . . . so far it hasn't helped. :-) BUT that doesn't mean it won't help Miriam. :-) This year I think I just need to be more consistant with the weekly interviews because I think that is KEY and something I haven't done too well this year. With both John and Brooklynn and Addie all in similar phases next year, I think it will be more effective. Addie will LOVE planning things out the way I do. John will LOVE having a list. I'm just not sure it will work for Brooklynn (the whole planner thing), because she doesn't compartamentalize the same way I do. She loves feeling "grown up" with her own calendar, though. If her siblings are doing it, she may be more inclined. ????

Funny story (this is a long p.s.) : The other night Brooklynn was doing a performance for Savior of the World. Well, apparently she wasn't backstage when everyone else in her scene was there and so they all started freaking out, "Where's Rebekah!?!" (stage name). My friend Mary ran to get her. She found Brooklynn coming up the stairs, no urgency whatsoever. Well, it turns out she knew exactly where she was going and when she needed to be there and she WAS there right when she was supposed to be. Everyone else was just early or panicked for no reason (nerves!). So, anyway, it dawned on me that this "dawdling attitude" I've been fighting against with her for so long isn't really a weakness after all. She just doesn't sense urgency and doesn't get easily stressed out about time. She gets where she needs to get when she needs to get there. It did make me realize that I CAN give her more of a time schedule than I've given "because we homeschool." Anyway . . . just more thoughts on time. :-)

Time

2011-04-13T14:54:00.003-05:00

I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggles with time. One of the first words Miriam learned was "dawdle" but she still hasn't figured out how to STOP doing it!!!! I feel like much of my day is spent forcing other people to do things--like strength of will alone will stop the clock or move the children forward.

So far it has, for the most part, but it is exhausting. I need Miriam to take a little more responsibility. One idea I am trying is getting her a watch and a planner and giving them to her during a special "now that you are 8" ice cream milkshake date. I'm going to explain that now that she is 8, she needs to keep better track of what needs done when, and make sure she meets her responsibilities. Then I'm going to pull out her new LA book and spelling book and handwriting book, and together we're going to figure out how many pages she needs to do of each every day to get through what she needs to this year.

Then, during scripture study time (that she will then be a part of because she'll be 8--instead of just having quiet time like the littles) every Friday, we'll fill out the next week's schedule.

I don't know how effective it will be the first few years, but I hope it will get her thinking more about time and giving her a sense that she can own time and divide time and plan time.

Anyway--I haven't tried it yet so I don't know how it will work, but it is worth a shot!

Thanks for the great book ideas. I'll post about any great books I find.

Andrea

Virtues

2011-04-13T01:26:00.000-05:00

Love the values idea for devotionals, Andrea! I am reminded of Benjamin Franklin's autobiography where he wrote down his list of thirteen attributes and determined to work on one each month for himself. It's been in the back of my mind to do the same thing ever since. I think I tried it for myself for a little while, but didn't get too far. Love tying in children's books with it as well. Fun!

Loved Esquith's book. I have been thinking a LOT about TIME actually (his first chapter was a good one for me) because I've realized as a homeschooling family, my children's sense of time is a bit "off." Now, I am a compulsively early person. I agree with President Packer that if you're ten minutes early to a meeting then you're late! But, that only applies with activities we have OUTSIDE the home. Inside the home, it's a whole different matter. There are no deadlines for anything and thus things take longer than they probably need to, decreasing the amount of stuff we could actually be doing or learning. So, it's been a new focus of mine. . . how to make time matter to my kids in their daily lives. It's a tough one!! (especially being 7 months pregnant and not waking up "on time" each morning). sigh.

Anyway, you asked for book suggestions:
There is a book called Books that Build Character you might want to check out.
Also William Bennet has a book "The Children's Book of Virtues" or something like that with lots of short stories based on certain virtues. It's great.
The Eyres also have a book called "Teaching Children Values" where they take a value each month to focus on. I think there are some book suggestions in there as well (their website also focusses on one value a month).

As I may be building on your idea for our own devotionals next year, I'll let you know if I discover any other valueable books. :-)

JULIA

Stuff

2011-04-12T21:52:00.004-05:00

Amber--thank you for your thoughts. I am glad someone else will admit that a lot of child-rearing in the younger years is drudgery. And work. Bucketloads of work. Congrats on your pregnancy!

I have some thoughts on some books I've read lately. First, I read Lighting Their Fires by Rafe Esquith because Julia rated it on her goodreads. Each chapter discusses a different virtue/life skill that helps a child do well in life. They included:

1) be on time—understand concept of time

2) Focus—ability to concentrate

3) Limit television

4) Smart decision making

5) Sweeping like Shakespeare—anything worth doing is worth doing well

6) Unselfishness

7) Humility

8) Delayed Gratification

All of those things are excellent for children to learn. I liked how Esquith included books and movies that he feels teaches these ideas well. It got me thinking. I have a FHE book all put together that has ten virtues discussed by President Hinckley. You probably saw these as they went the rounds a few years ago. The whole thing is called: Ten Virtues That Will Heal Our Hearts and Homes: love, honesty, morality, civility, learning, forgiveness and mercy, thrift and industry, gratitude, optimism, faith.

I thought to myself, those are ten great virtues and the core lesson/scriptures/songs are already put together for me. I could easily find some books that reiterate the importance of those characteristics to supplement. Voila--a school year's worth of devotionals. Plus, a primary song to learn each month and a scripture to learn each month.

This is probably very disjointed. I'm very tired. The point is, starting in September I'm picking a virtue to learn about with the kids during devotional and I'm going to use children's books to supplement. For example, Secret Garden works well for civility. I'll assign Miriam to read Secret Garden on her own, I'll get it on cd for Emeline and Cowen to listen to during quiet time, and then we'll discuss how it pertains to civility. I'll also get some shorter children's books to read during devotional.

The Pout-Pout Fish would work for optimism and a book about Abraham Lincoln for learning. It is going to be so much fun looking for books to go with each value.

I also read 52 Weeks of Fun Family Service by Merrilee Boyack. I liked it. The intro got a little redundant but that might just be because she was preaching to the choir. I am always trying to incorporate service into our lives. I wanted ideas of how to do that and this book was full of them.

Probably the most useful thing in the book is the index where she lists a bunch of websites that help match volunteers to different service opportunities and also give ideas for how to help. For example, making t-shirt dresses. I did not know that would be so valued. Also, I had heard about giving a goat or other animal to someone in a village, but I didn't know how or where to look. She gives all the info. So, not riveting reading, but useful. I don't know that we'll do a service activity every week next year, but I want to make sure something happens every other week. We already do something every month (I count simple things like taking a loaf of bread to the neighbor) so I just want to bump it up a little and diversify.

The end.

PS--Any book recommendations to match a value will be appreciated!

Two cents worth from a lurker..

2011-04-08T10:28:00.002-05:00

Hi!

Sorry I have not posted for a while. Early pregnancy and I were not friends..so now I am starting to feel human again half way through.

On Kami's thoughts, Kelly's and Julia's, I tend to agree with all of them. I get what Julia is saying about how our happiness can be based on our expectations of ourselves. I tend to lean that way while still having expectations for others that they "should" measure up to. I am still this way on my bad days or when I am feeling out of control in my personal life. By personal I mean, my lack of self control or discipline.

I had a life changing experience about two years ago that really made me assess how I view and treat other people, my commitment to Heavenly Father, and made me take a hard look at myself and what it is I value. I won't go into details but I had to hit a hard wall(because I was just that proud) to see that I had way too many unrealistic expectations for myself and others and this was driving a wedge in my relationships with EVERYONE (including Heavenly Father).

I had to realize that while I could blame others for my problems the basic problem was in myself and I was the only one who could change me. I could not change others. Maybe you already know this principle but that was huge for me. Since I am a bit of a controlling person(aren't many women) I had to learn (because my life was out of control) that I could not control every little thing and that I didn't have to. There was someone I could trust absolutely for every little thing I thought important, someone who would not let me down, who knew so much better than I what was needed in every situation.

Once I realize this it was easier to realign my priorities in my personal life mission. I truly was stripped down, humbled, and able to write down what it is I felt I needed to do in this life, who I really was, my eternal nature, etc. I still go back and read what I wrote and it is as true today as it was written.

I, of course, still have tons of natural man in me so I have to pray everyday (as I did then) to have patience, to be led by Him in knowing what it is I should be doing that day, then I have to act. That is such a huge thing for me. I may hear the impressions but do I act on them all the time? Not as often as I would like or should. But when I do, my day is much different than I would have planned yet I get all the things done that I felt were important at the beginning of the day. Power from on high-love it!

Does any of this answer the questions posed? Probably not..but I wanted to share. A few books that I helped me when I was on this crash course were: Bonds that Make us Free by C. Terry Warner and Putting on the Armor of God by Stephen A Cramer. Anatomy of Peace and Peacegiver are other great reads for being able to see others and ourselves in different ways.

Summary: changing myself or perhaps choosing fully to be on the Lord's side has helped me in dealing with the day to day details of life. Helped me to learn to love, just a little, the drudgery that can come with a house full of little children; helped me to see my husband for the awesome man that he is. I caught a glimpse of how much my Heavenly Father loves me and that makes me want to be with Him again. Therefore, I will not complain anymore(okay, maybe not so loudly) about changing messy underwear or diapers. :)

Amber

Re: Kami's post

2011-04-03T10:56:00.001-05:00

I don't know if this is exactly what Kami was talking about, but I have been thinking about weakness, discipline, gratitude and purposeful-living for the past four months in a very intense way. In the past six months I've had a huge paradigm shift and been able to completely change how I felt about something that had been bothering me for about five years prior and causing a lot of problems for me (which then rubbed off on my marriage although I didn't realize that's what was happening until recently).

The short details - I hated where I lived and resented my husband for making me move here. I also hated my calling and resented my husband for not releasing me (while he was Bishop) even though he knew how miserable I was.

I'll tell you some of what has helped me.

When the Primary President moved me to a new class (thank the Lord!) I received fresh motivation to fulfill and magnify my calling. All my callings, really (including mother and wife).

Some changes that I made in my life at that time that I think made a big difference:

1. I started using my Mead notebook. I have a notebook that I keep by my bed at night. Every night before bed I write down my to-do list for the next day. Not only does it clear my mind, but it helps me to remember to think about things I might not otherwise. I only write down 10 things ( I limit myself), and I try to pull stuff from a variety of life areas - such as service, gospel study, housework, schoolwork, exercise, etc. It has really helped me to focus my day. Some days after I list my 10 things I have a list running on the side of "don't forget" items that I also need to do. But mentally having a list of 10 has been great for me. The notebook usually comes downstairs with me in the morning to refer to. Having a checklist is good for me. It helps me feel accomplished - and helps me keep my expectations realistic.

2. I realized one evening that I had to exercise more discipline in my life (in several areas) and that is one of the purposes of this life. For me to learn control. I CONTROL MY LIFE - to the extent that I control the choices I make and what I choose to do with my time. I decided my priorities were way out of whack. Not enough time to read scriptures...but I was still making time to check my email. I realized that I had to fix that. I had to stop letting the little things rule my life. My actions reveal where my true priorities are. So if my priority is to have Gospel Study every day and tell every child I love them, then I darn well better do that. I included exercise, and much as I hate, and dread getting up early to do it, I have noticed (to my chagrin) that I really do feel better on the days that I do it. My energy level is much higher. I just need to somehow turn that into motivation at 6am.

3. On a personal note - I realized that I had been blaming my husband for my unhappiness. I read several talks about choosing happiness and gratitude and knew that I had been subtly undermining my marriage with my discontent. I would go through spurts of unhappiness and really be unhappy with Josh for dragging me to this place. The truth is, he did choose to move here and although I didn't want to - I didn't TELL him at the time. That's my fault - not his. I realized I had to be like the Little Purple Pansies as the primary song goes. I started by finding things that I was grateful for about my circumstances. I also started praying for opportunities to provide service to those around me. My theory was - you love those you serve, so if I could develop more love for those around me I would love being here with them. I happened to be reading a talk that said to pray for opportunities to serve. I have put that into practice a few times (when I remember) and sincerely asked the Lord to send me a service opportunity that day. It's been really interesting what has popped up.

4. I re-read President Uchtdorf's talk about creating and realized that part of my unhappiness stemmed from the fact that I wasn't creating anything. Long story short - I had given up several hobbies due to changing needs, but I hadn't replaced them with any new hobbies and I really felt like I was stagnating. This is something I'm still working on - but even the small steps I've made towards creating have brightened my life and brought me much joy. It is not a worthless thing to create beauty (in food, handicrafts, decorating, garden, etc). In fact, I think it is a God-given ability and mandate.

So in reading Kami's post again - now that I've talked about what I wanted to talk about - I think the key is to set realistic expectations. I definitely struggle. I have told my husband time and time again (when he comes home to a wrecked house and no clean laundry) that I can be a good housekeeper or a good mother, but I can't do either well at the same time. You asked, How do you balance necessary guilt... To which I say, I don't. I just feel the guilt and accept it. ;-)
Except now it occurs to me that necessary guilt motivates us and helps us recognize areas where we really do need to improve. It's like a mental kick in the pants. Unnecessary guilt makes us feel down, depressed, and unworthy. I'm quite familiar with both kinds.

Last thing - when my children are driving me crazy (above and beyond the norm) I have found it beneficial to take a break. Drop the expectations. Go outside (we go to the beach or the Botanical Gardens). Don't do anything workish. Enjoy being a family. Start fresh the next day. Otherwise I just get angry and do and say things that I regret later. Laundry and school, and even dinner, can wait.

Julia - those books sound good!

Notwithstanding My Weakness

2011-04-02T21:25:00.000-05:00

GREAT FOOD FOR THOUGHT, KAMI!! Thank you!

The only thing that really kept coming back into my mind was that we need to read Notwithstanding My Weakness (it's on our reading list!) and discuss it. Along with that we need to read Spiritual Lightening by Catherine M. Thomas. These two books literally changed my perspective on how I think about myself. Which, in my opinion, is most of where the principles you mentioned come from: guilt, expectations, and motherhood. I think I've thought almost everything you yourself thought today. I can say though, that this past year or so I have felt a huge sense of accomplishment in raising my children. I still have feelings of, "Oh, shoot, I didn't teach them that, did I?" when they do something I don't approve of (or don't do what I expected, etc), but I don't feel the hugely, overpowering amount of guilt that I once used struggle with. Guilt is something I think most women/mothers (men?) deal with. But, again, all I can say is those two books MUST be read by every woman/mother. Then we can discuss this further. :-)

In more direct answer to the questions you asked: :-)

Either way, whether I feel good about the day or not is often dependent on that mental checklist. This is the life of every mother!

To tell you the truth, I couldn't think of one example where expectation didn't play into happiness (This is another point where I did want feedback. Can you think of an example where this isn't the case?). I still think love is an expectation as well, whether a child has felt it or not, I think it's a basic human need/expectation. ??? My happiness is usually based on my expectations of myself. And when I'm not happy with my children it's really a reflection on my lack of training them to do what I expected them to do in the first place. Does that make sense? (spouses are different! ) ???

What do you all think? How do you balance necessary guilt (necessary for change and betterment) and unnecessary guilt that holds you back? How do you manage to eat the carrot stick and not the chocolate truffle? And how do base your self-worth on your knowledge of yourself as a child of God rather than your sense of accomplishment? How do you keep yourself from going crazy with your children when there's no feeling of accomplishment at the end of the day and exercising when the thought makes you cringe? (Exercising and parenting have a lot in common.) And where does that leave my mental checklist and my expectations for a tidy house? In answer to all of these: Read Notwithstanding My Weakness! :-)

Thoughts while vacuuming.....

2011-04-01T22:50:00.007-05:00

Today I was thinking about self-control, self-worth, happiness, sense of accomplishment, and instant gratification, all while vacuuming. This was after a day with a complete lack of self-control, of which my children bore the brunt of. Plus, it was on my mind after Andrea's awesome lesson in Relief Society (I went to her ward last week for Harriet's baby blessing) from Elder Scott's talk on Faith and Character. And yes Andrea, I did go home and read it again. Here it is for anyone interested. So here's my thoughts for what it's worth--I actually wanted some feed back on what you all thought. But I'm going to try to make this short as I still have cookies to go make.

On Sunday, a lady in Andrea's ward made a comment pointing out that in the scripture

Ether 12:27
27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

the word weakness is singular, and really that that weakness is the natural man. Like in this scripture.

Mosiah 3:19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

I'm not going to go into discussing whether that's true or not at this point--I'm just going to make that assumption. So what's the natural man then? I think it's lack of self control. (Reading Elder Scott's talk will really help you follow my logic here.) Sorry, I'm not going to explain my logic entirely--I'm just going to make that assumption again. But here's a brief example of my thinking--what's the opposite of the natural man....Christ, right? And Christ was perfect, right? Well, he had to have complete and utter self-control to be perfect. He's actually a perfect example of self-control. Perfect self-control in resisting sin, perfect discipline in helping others and doing what Heavenly Father wanted rather than the easier route of doing something self-gratifying, like lazing around on a couch and eating chocolate bon-bons. Why? Love, right?

Anyway, that really wasn't my point...okay, I don't have a point to this at all, but moving on anyway. My thoughts today were more about this--I've been unhappy all day. Why? Well, I didn't get hardly anything done I wanted to. And then I was thinking about that, and the days I'm most happy are the days I am able complete the things I wanted to complete. Sometimes this mental list is enormously long and impossible, and sometimes all I want to accomplish is a simple thing and fun, like going a hike with my family. Either way, whether I feel good about the day or not is often dependent on that mental checklist. (This IS one point I wanted your thoughts on, is that how any of you are, and do you think that's right--morally, ethically, religiously or whatever?) Further, I once read a study on the happiest people (I believe it was some Scandinavian country who ranked the highest of happiest) and the research showed that the biggest factor to people happiness is their expectations. This backs up my feelings entirely. I expected to be able to clean up the breakfast dishes and wash off the table before noon and this didn't happen till 4:30 PM and so I wasn't very happy, etc. To tell you the truth, I couldn't think of one example where expectation didn't play into happiness (This is another point where I did want feedback. Can you think of an example where this isn't the case?). This also follows along with the psychological theory of cognitive dissonance and self-concept

(The psychologists who paved the way for this concept were Carl Rogers and Abraham Maslow. Rogers had the idea that everyone is seeking out a positive self-concept. He said that everyone is trying to get from their real self to their ideal self, and the closer someone is to that ideal self the happier that person will be. Rogers also said that one factor in whether or not someone will be happy is the amount of unconditioned positive regard someone gets, or UPR. An example of UPR would possibly be a parent or guardian of a child taking care of them no matter what.^[14]))

^{So clinically speaking, is that why God's love for us as his children so important?--because we need that UPR? And I guess I just answered my own question about happiness and expectation--happiness can be influenced by unconditional love, which is unrelated to expectation. Well, usually, a child does expect love from his parent, but only if he's received that before.}

Also, I decided I really like the feeling of accomplishment that comes with my mental checklist--I was actually thinking about this because of wanting to go back to college and all the projects I have--I think I really like doing something well, and being able to (mentally, at least) say, "Oh, look what I accomplished! Yeah me!" But is that a form of self-gratification? I mean that in the context of my day of whining, messy children who don't obey, don't listen, and where I spend twenty minutes doing something like cleaning up the breakfast dishes only to spend another thirty minutes cleaning up the mess the kids made while cleaned up the breakfast dishes, or on the other hand, another sixty minutes if I try to make my children clean up said mess. So, what I'm trying to say, is that with parenting there is no sense of accomplishment. I may do my kids hair and dress them cute and take them and people say, "Oh what cute kids!" But that only lasts till my kids pull out their hair, start kicking and screaming and whining, and then people say (to themselves usually), "What an awful mother!" That was a superficial example, but even with more profound principles, I think my point still applies, because parenting is never FINISHED. (What do you all think?) So, I think it's obviously wrong to base my happiness on my sense of accomplishment, plus that's so short-lived an insubstantial.

On the opposite side of things, what makes me really sad and depressed and angry? Simple. When I (and others) don't live up to my expectations--which always is a result of lack of self-control (I was mostly thinking in context of myself, not others). And then I feel GUILTY. Okay, true confession here--my family goes to family therapy every week because of my daughter's adoption and the issues that raises in our family. And one big issue I have is guilt. So guilt is generally considered something negative and necessary to move past (like in the repentance process--a certain amount is necessary but then you're supposed to forgive yourself and move on.) Here's a tidbit from wikipedia on guilt:

Guilt is founded on our empathy system and mirror neurons. When we see another carrying out an action, we carry out the action ourselves in neuronal activity, though not in overt action. The neurons that mirror others are called mirror neurons. When we see another person suffering, we can feel their suffering as if it is our own. This constitutes our powerful system of empathy, which leads to our thinking that we should do something to relieve the suffering of others. If we cannot help another, or fail in our efforts, we experience feelings of guilt. From the perspective of group selection, groups that are made up of a high percent of co-operators outdo groups with a low percent of co-operators in between-group competition. People who are more prone to high levels of empathy-based guilt may be likely to suffer from anxiety and depression; however, they are also more likely to cooperate and behave altruistically. This suggests that guilt-proneness may not always be beneficial at the level of the individual, or within-group competition, but highly beneficial in between-group competition.^{[citation needed]T}

To sum up,

Ummm....never mind the sum up. What do you all think? How do you balance necessary guilt (necessary for change and betterment) and unnecessary guilt that holds you back? How do you manage to eat the carrot stick and not the chocolate truffle? And how do base your self-worth on your knowledge of yourself as a child of God rather than your sense of accomplishment? How do you keep yourself from going crazy with your children when there's no feeling of accomplishment at the end of the day and exercising when the thought makes you cringe? (Exercising and parenting have a lot in common.) And where does that leave my mental checklist and my expectations for a tidy house? I'm not sure any of this made sense, I was just ruminating while vacuuming.

In a Reading Funk

2011-03-30T23:19:00.000-05:00

I don't know what to read!!!!!
I'm not in the mood for anything, but I can't stand not reading anything.
Okay, so I am waiting for Ranger's Apprentice #8 . . . but in the meantime, I need something to read.
I'm looking for something purposeful, but not too heavy (in language or content) because my pregnant mind wants fluff but I don't want to read fluff. You know what I mean? I kind of want to read some good parenting/homeschool book but I'm also kind of sick of those right now. I just want something that will keep me up at night reading!! You know the kind.
Give me some ideas.
JULIA

History Cont.

2011-03-28T21:18:00.002-05:00

Thanks for your responses. No, I wasn't planning on using the Story of the World books--I like to create my own curriculum for history, but I was interested in if going chronologically had been effective for you. If we do it, I'd start when Miriam was in 4th grade. I'm glad the SOTW breaks it down well--that would probably be the most challenging part for me. I've heard a lot about Sonlight but haven't even looked at it. I think I will now--literature recommendations are always useful as I do everything I can literature based.

As for math--that program looks really interesting. I am not good at integrating math into a normal day (outside of cooking--and I don't really let the kids cook with me much). I already have a combo that I'm really happy with, so I don't think I'll be changing soon. I talked about it a lot on my homeschool blog, so I'll spare you here.

Since we're talking curriculum--I was going to buy the Rod and Staff Language Arts program for Miriam for next year and their spelling program. Have you used either of those?

History

2011-03-28T17:53:00.000-05:00

I've used Story of the World pretty much from the get-go...as a guide. Sometimes I read from the book, but more often I use the literature suggestions in the activity book. I request as many as I can from the library, plus any others that I can find on the topic that look interesting. Then when they come I pick and choose. I might read through SWB's book myself to make sure I have the history straight, and read a snippet that I think the kids will find interesting, but if I do read a chapter, I tend to not read it word for word to them. I have a lot of supplemental links tagged on my computer. I've looked for other booklists and whatnot. I sometimes use the activities in the activity book, but not very often. My kids like to color while I read to them, so I might photocopy some coloring pages. I have collected almost the entire SOTW set thanks to my husband who has been hunting ebay/half.com and paperbackswap for them for years. I don't use them enough to want to pay full price for them, but I consider them a worthwhile resource.

Other curriculum that I have been impressed with is the Beautiful Feet books. If I remember correctly, they also move chronologically. I also have liked Sonlight as a resource. I found a website that took the Sonlight book recommendations and showed how they could fit into The Story of the World - just another useful reference, as I particularly like how SOTW is broken up.

I'm with you, Andrea, I love history - particularly American. I have done American History for Kindergarten, and then I do it during the summers also. I expect my children to study it in depth in high school, but in the meantime I'm filling their heads with the stories!

If you don't want to buy the books, but would appreciate a scope and sequence and/or book suggestions...
http://satorismiles.com/curriculum/story-of-the-world-1/

Some of my links:
http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/history.htm
http://homescool-ed.blogspot.com/2007/04/sonlight-books-arranged-by-well-trained.html

Here's another curriculum idea that intrigued me: http://www.homeschoolinthewoods.com/

So I guess I wouldn't say that I love SOTW, but I find it incredibly useful, as well as the resources that have been created around it.

As a side note - may I tell you that I purchased a real math curriculum and LOVE it. Best one I've ever used... Very easy to use and yet very easy to tailor to your child.
www.mathonthelevel.com

For Logan (who is turning 8 soon and in 2nd grade) I have been supplementing with free worksheets printed from www.learningpage.com to give him extra practice. He earns much-desired computer game time for each worksheet that he finishes.

History

2011-03-28T16:02:00.000-05:00

I've tried following the Story of the World series, but I'm just really bad at following cirriculums in general and got bored with the readings. I think the best way to do that, if you're going to do it, is to get the books on CD and just plug them in in the car. I've done that in the past and the kids got more into it. Just a thought. The activity books have some value but also some busywork as well. You'll just need to take a look at it. Chronologically is good I guess . . . but I don't think it's necessary until the kids get older. IMO I do love the idea of having a timeline of history up on our wall and have tried several ways of doing this . . . but I haven't been consistent with it. The Book of Centuries from the Tanglewood corebook is my favorite idea for kids getting a picture of chronology. INTEREST is most important at the younger stages. What do your kids want to learn about? Start with that. I will say that my kids' favorites have been Ancient Egytian stuff and the Medevial ages. Knights and princesses . . . dead guys and mummies . . . can't go wrong there. :-) We are different than the "normal American" apparently, because we are just now getting into American history (I've always touched on it, but next year is when we're going into depth with it). This year has been our favorite history year, too . . . Real Life Princesses! The girls have loved it. So, anyway . . . That was a bunch of babbling about nothing and I don't even know if I answered your question. :-) JULIA

Well-Trained Mind: History

2011-03-28T15:09:00.003-05:00

I'm just curious if any of you have followed a chronological history program. I haven't. I decide what sounds interesting to me and the kids and then put together a little unit on it. I like the idea of chronological though. I think the authors of the Well-Trained Mind make an excellent point that Americans spend most of their time studying American history and it distorts perspective.

I also know that I like to teach what I know, and what I know is American history.

However, sometimes a girl needs to leave her comfort zone. Maybe I can spend the next year familiarizing myself with ancient history and start in fourth grade and do the four year plan.

I like how she did the sciences along with it--but that might be a bit much for me. We'll see. Good things to think about though.

Freakonomics

2011-03-26T15:42:00.000-05:00

I just finished this book, by Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner. Pretty interesting. Quick, easy read. I think my favorite chapters were the ones on baby names, but I also liked the sections on real estate agents and crack dealers. And no, they are not the same thing.

In other books, I'm reading Flatland somewhat half-heartedly. It's fine, just not in the mood for it right now. Finished book nine of Ranger's Apprentice series and can't stand that the 10th book is not available at the library yet.

Hope you are all well. We are getting a bit too much rain out here in sunny California. Please share some book suggestions because I need to start a new list!

Note on "Easy" Classics

2011-03-23T23:08:00.000-05:00

I used to agree with what Andrea said about not having kids read easier classics, but after having a daughter who has had struggles with reading AND listening to Andrew Pudewa speak on the topic, my views have changed . . . slightly. Brooklynn listened to the book on CD (real version), The Little Princess, and fell in love with it. THEN, she watched the movie and loved that, too. THEN she found an "easy" version of the book at a yard sale and just had to buy it! And she's reading it. If I were to "make" her read or wait to read the "real" version, she'd lose a bit of that passion for the story. So, I think there are appropriate times to have children read the "dumbed down" versions of the stories. I do not, however, think a parent should read the easy versions aloud. Kids need to hear the "real" language of a great classic. I have faith that Brooklynn will eventually read the "real" book simply because of her love for the story and when her physical hindreances finally match her thirst for the real thing. And that's what Pudewa said. An older child/person will remember loving the story as a child and be drawn to read the "real" thing. Again, I still think there's a time and a place, but I wouldn't disregard them completely. Just my thoughts. :-)

Well-Trained Mind

2011-03-21T15:07:00.000-05:00

No, Andrea, I do not roll my eyes at the fact that you haven't read this book yet. :-) AND thanks for the refresher course. :-) Having read it at the VERY BEGINNINGS of my homeschool research, I have forgotten much of what that book taught me (my notes are somewhere). Thanks for your thoughts and happy reading. :-)

The Well-Trained Mind

2011-03-18T13:03:00.002-05:00

Last night I did a foolish thing. I thought the baby would eat at 10:00 pm (three hours after her last feeding), so I ran a bath and soaked happily with a book until almost 10, when I got out and got ready for bed. And waited for baby to wake up. To keep myself occupied while waiting since I knew it would be any minute, and falling asleep only to wake up ten minutes later is the worst, I took notes on the first 60 pages of the book I was reading in the tub.

She didn't wake up until almost midnight. I'm so tired. WHY DIDN'T I GO TO BED WHEN I HAD THE CHANCE??? Sigh.

But--I'm totally in love with the book--The Well-Trained Mind, as you already guessed from the title of this post. I'm sure Kelly and Julia are aghast that I haven't read it before as it is the Bible of homeschool literature. The reason is simple--I didn't go into homeschooling worried that I wouldn't be able to do it (although that worries me a little now :)) so I didn't feel compelled to read everything that homeschoolers all read.

I should have read this.

First, I love that it is a practical guide divided into age groups and subject matter. The fantastic organization makes it very useful as a reference book. What are some good grammar books for an 8 year old? Oh, I'll turn to the 8 year old section and look it up. Obviously, you don't have to use all their recommendations, but what a great starting point. I only read 60 pages and much of that was introduction, but I have a spelling book and grammar book written down in my notes that I want to look into before picking curriculum for next year. I like tried and true materials (which is why I read a lot of reviews on Timberdoodle and other places before purchasing anything).

Other things I love: 1) their entire approach is literacy based--also the best part of TJEd; 2) it is not child-led but it is child-centered; 3) it is ambitious; 4) it is age-appropriate.

I really like that Jessie Wise emphasizes that all parents can homeschool if they want it badly enough, regardless of their education level. I believe that. I worry about homeschoolers who don't love to read, but on the whole, I think most people of average intelligence and abilities can do a good job of it. As an educator it makes perfect sense that a much smaller teacher/student ratio is going to pay dividends. Your child might not end up as accomplished and educated as Susan Bauer, but he should be on a comparable level to public-schooled children.

I also like that there isn't a lot of philosophy mumbo-jumbo involved in their approach. At least I haven't reached any yet and hope that I do not.

I also like that it is a very useful book for non-homeschoolers. Or "friends of other educational approaches." Just kidding. Kami and Ana came to mind often as I was reading. Kami does a supplemental approach with Ana during the summer and frequently calls and asks me for curriculum advice. This book would be perfect for her to get some ideas and also a little bit of child development. (I love that Wise is an educator. I know she only taught for a few years, but she had all the child development classes and that does make a difference. Plus, I love teachers!) Kami wouldn't have to read the entire 800 page tome, just the part on 11 year olds.

I also like that Wise emphasizes that not everything can be taught and you have to pick and choose. I don't know that I agree with all her choices, but it is still a good thing that homeschoolers be reminded that there are a limited number of hours in a day.

So--what don't I like? Nothing really. There are some things with which I disagree. First, I don't think that having children read abridged versions of great books is a good idea. The Iliad, okay--it isn't that great of a book anyway. The Odyssey--okay, it is an adventure story that lends itself well to illustration. But Dickens? Wise claims that if children are familiar with a story they won't be scared to read the original. That's ridiculous. What literature loving child is going to be afraid of a book? I read Les Mis in the seventh grade. No fear here. Besides that, and most importantly, if you already know the story, why read the book? I'd much rather have my children read the really great stuff when they are ready to so they appreciate the story from the brilliant author that came up with it. In light of my view, it is funny to me that Cowen has an abridged and illustrated (about 200 page) version of The Three Musketeers that he carries around and sleeps with. They fence, after all. I've never read the book to him, but Timothy has told him most of the story line.

Also, I don't like that Wise minimizes art during the early years. I agree that an art curriculum or art appreciation isn't necessary, but I do think creating is important for children. Maybe she'll talk more in-depth concerning art later in the book. I have only scratched the surface.

In conclusion, I'm glad I'm reading this book if for no other reason that it got me thinking and excited about homeschooling next year. Since I still burst into tears when I see a full laundry basket or a sink of dishes or my children demand food, I'm cutting myself some slack and allowing my post-partum body and hormones to recuperate before jumping back into homeschooling. However, it is nice to feel excited about the coming year and have some ideas about what I want the schedule to look like and what I want different children to achieve.

YOU CAN STOP READING HERE.

For those who homeschool, some of the ideas she gave about teaching reading really made me stop and think. Miriam learned to read in 15 minutes--no joke. It was no work at all. Cowen, on the other hand, is trickier. He doesn't want to sit still, he won't look at the word--he's a "glance and guess" sort of a dude. In short, teaching him to read is more of a chore. However, the teaching reading ideas were great and got my own creative juices flowing. Since Emeline is ready to read, I thought I would take this summer and do some remedial reading with Cowen and get Emeline started. First, I'll make a checklist of the capital and lower-case letters and using a letter game on the wall to figure out which letters they recognize and which they do not. (I realized a few weeks ago that Cowen knew the sound for the letter 'n' but didn't know its name. Bad teaching on my part.)

My checklist will also have the sounds of letters. When the kids get all those checked off (and that should take a week at most--we mostly know all this stuff, it is just a double-check), I'll have them make words out of letters on the wall and find cans out of the pantry and play memory games with letters and short words.

In short, I'll make it fun. That is what is missing from Cowen's reading program right now. He can read lots of words, but it isn't fun. After playing games for a few minutes a day, he'll still have to read his reading books to me, but hopefully it won't be so much of a chore.

Other ideas I've taken from the book include a different spelling approach for Miriam. We've struggled with writing because she hates to misspell words. Sigh. I think a more intensive approach to spelling combined with copy work will help her get over the writing hump this summer and then next year, when she's in third grade, hopefully she'll be more willing to write. If not, I'll think of something!

I also love the idea of taking Miriam to the library and making her get different types of books. I created a reading group for her to force her to read a variety, but once a month is not much. This way I can take her on her own to the library (special) and she'll learn the dewey decimal system (awesome) and she will have books picked by herself (ownership) but not all Hardy Boys. We'll save the Hardy Boys (which I am actively in favor of) for free time reading. Excellent idea.

Those are the main ones. I'm going to keep posting about this book as I read so I can remember all the things I've thought about. I wrote down my practical notes in a notebook, and here are my overall thoughts. Lucky you, right?

Standard Operating Procedures (SOP)

2011-03-14T15:47:00.005-05:00

Here's our cleaning the house checklists. Leo calls them SOPs. Whatever. I made them because in an adoption book I read it said that foster and adoptive kids often have difficulty remembering more than one or two things at a time (ie clean this, then do your homework, then practice piano, then read, and finally.....etc) and Ana really did have a horrible time with that. So I made these, and bought a whiteboard for Ana to keep track of her tasks. They've both been amazingly helpful. Anyway, here's what we have.

Kitchen

Shake out rug and sweep floor.
Using a rag, bucket with cleaner, wash

cupboards and counters
refrigerator
stove (top and front of oven)
microwave (inside and out)

Wash sink with Comet, dry afterwards
Wash garbage can lid
Mop kitchen floor
Put out clean kitchen towels

Bathroom

Take everything out of bathroom (shampoos, soap, etc)
Put toilet bowl cleaner in toilet
Wash the mirror using paper towels and windex
Use same paper towels to Wash toothbrush holder
Sweep floor of bathroom
Wash the cupboards with rag and cleaner
Wash the sink and counter with Comet and then dry with towel
Wash the tub with Comet and then dry with towel
Mop the floor with bucket and Pinesol
Clean baby toilet
Clean toilet inside and out
Put everything back and put out fresh towels

Living Room

Use the broom to get rid of cobwebs
Straighten magazines and put away any books, toys, etc.
Straighten couch cushions
Dust computer desk, tv, bookshelves, piano, coffee table, end table and pictures
Vacuum
Sweep and mop entryway

Life Skills

2011-03-06T16:06:00.000-06:00

Sadly, Andrea, I think you are just as far along - if not more - as I am in planning these classes. I pretty much just copied Diann Jepson's ideas as a starting place and tweak them as I go. Although my oldest daughter is nearly 13, they have just recently become more pertinent to her. She has a much bigger desire to learn these things now that she's seeing the benefit in her life. Not that getting her to cook was ever a problem.

Our cooking class has been our most successful so far, and has involved giving my child the responsibility of cooking for a certain meal every day. Breakfast has worked well for us. I teach them how to make everything, and then they have to get up early enough to have the meal ready in time. The great thing about doing the life skills class this way is that it was real-world consequences. If they sleep in and don't make breakfast, dad goes to work hungry.

Now that Hannah's 12, and is ready to move on from her "Bank of Dad" account to a real one, we need to create a money management course, but I haven't gotten it done yet.

Some other ideas for life skills classes I'm working on:
first aid/babysitting
event planning
meal etiquette - how to properly set a table, serve, play hostess
gardening
car care
basic sewing
driving (only two years until I actually have to think about this one!!)

I read that practice scholar phase is the best place to really work on a lot of these adult skills. We are in the middle of figuring out exactly how that's going to look in our family. Lots of discussions going on with my husband and daughter as she moves into a new phase of life. She's definitely our guinea pig!

Kelly

2011-03-06T15:28:00.003-06:00

Are you willing to share your Life Skills Classes?? I've only put together the baking/cooking/meal preparation/menu planning/grocery list writing/grocery shopping/lead the singing classes. Obviously, I have a ways to go. If you are willing, I'd love to look through yours and steal your ideas, if possible.

My husband wants a course for creating a business. Thanks for the book tip, Julia.

Also, Kami, I know you already have a binder with detailed instructions on how to clean all the rooms in the house. Would you be willing to share that with me so I can steal it for the cleaning course? That would be awesome.

Andrea

More Ideas on Work

2011-03-02T20:37:00.000-06:00

This is one of my favorite blogs to browse every once in awhile. I like how she integrates work into her home & thought it was fitting for this discussion.

http://thetaleofourquest.blogspot.com/2011/03/creating-inspiring-learning-environment.html

I used to worry a lot about finances and teaching my kids about finances. So far we're doing it how my parents did it....which wasn't the best way I assure you, but it seems to have worked for my siblings and myself. Basically, whenever the kids earn money they have to save some. We don't just give them money for things they want. My parents taught more by example, my dad was very entrepreneurial, my husband thinks that same way. So that's what we do. As they get older I'm noticing that they sense the desire and need to earn money and are all starting to think of ways they can earn money. John has had a lemonade stand and just read the first winning Apprentice's book (you know that reality show?) "Beyond Lemonade Stands" which teaches kids how to start their own business. We all sell our plums each summer, the girls had a temporary babysitting/dog walking job for a couple of months, when we go to the Farmer's Market they all start talking about things they want to sell someday, John wants to teach piano lessons when he turns 14....those types of things. This year, all three of my kids put "Save $100" as one of their yearly goals and then they set up different baggies for spending and saving. Of course, I had to encourage John that it's best to create two different baggies because he wanted to just put it all in one pot and "Just not spend it." We all know how unrealistic that is! :-) I haven't read the book. I've heard it's great and when I can get my hands on it I'd like to read it. But for now I just don't see any purpose for young children to have money. I'm more on the same page as the lady who wrote the Headgates article: it's an adult responsibility they can earn when they are ready.

My very unhumble opinion! BUT with that said, I love that your family found what you needed, Andrea, and it's so fun to get excited about these things! :-) (sorry....not trying to deflate your excitement on the subject).

JULIA

Response to Kelly

2011-02-28T15:39:00.002-06:00

The problem with Boyack's approach to work is that she was very specific about what she felt children could do at certain ages (those lists were nice) and she was very emphatic about making your children work--but she didn't really have a plan to implement it per se. She said that kids get bored with the same approach so she rotated through different job charts. Basically, her chapters on work were to motivate parents to think that children working was important.

I also didn't agree with everything she said about raising independent children. For example, she told the story of when she was having a primary presidency meeting in her kitchen and her three year old came in and made a peanut butter sandwich on the floor and then left the kitchen eating it. Boyack used the story as a good example of letting your kids be independent. I thought it was a good story to illustrate why her kids needed to work so much (letting kids eat anywhere but at the kitchen table pretty much drives me nuts). Her tolerance levels for certain things are clearly different from mine. I'm not trying to judge her--I'm just saying my type A personality is not okay with crumbs all over the floor and babies eating wherever they please.

I still think the work chapters are worthwhile because it is important for our kids to learn to work and it is worth it to allow a little mess to facilitate independence. But overall, the chapters on finance were the best part of the book.

One of my favorite topics....

2011-02-28T09:30:00.000-06:00

WORKING CHILDREN!!

I haven't read that book - I don't think - but I have read something similar... Oh yes, a book about a Dad opening a National Bank of Dad. I can't remember what the title was. We started that and it was so awesome to see. I also really loved having Josh in charge of it. Nerd that he is, he has a wonderful spreadsheet set up to track everyone's accounts.

But, I don't think you talked enough about the working part, Andrea! I have read the TJED Home Companion and have used a lot of Diann Jepson's ideas. I still go back to the tickets every now and then. I rotate between three different systems to accomplish work. Tickets, going room by room as a group, and just plain assigning jobs that need to be done to specific children. I let them choose between tickets and family work on most days. They choose base on how they feel about working together at the moment. ;-) Adult Skills classes have been a big hit. My oldest - who is what would be considered practice scholar - is still working on getting everything passed of - but a lot of it she can do we just haven't made it "official". I love having a list of basic skills to work on - and love that someone else put thought into putting it together! As they've learned to cook, I've been printing up their mastered recipes and putting them in their adult skills binder so that they are also developing their own personal cookbook as they learn.

I'm curious what Boyack does differently regarding work!

I read an idea about having kids earn privileges. So if they ask to be able to do 'A', you say sure - do 'B' and then you can do 'A'. Everybody wins. ;-)

What I've Been Reading

2011-02-27T22:33:00.003-06:00

So, this is what I've been reading lately:

The Parenting Breakthrough: Real-Life Plan to Teach Kids to Work, Save Money, and Be Truly Independent by Merrilee Browne Boyack.

Sorry about the large font--I cut and pasted from amazon and was too lazy to change it. However, this book is good enough to "yell" about. It is the best parenting book I've ever read. Not that I've read a lot, but of the ones I have read--this is the best.

The first part is all about teaching your children to work. I've already spent a lot of hours thinking about how I was going to do that, so I didn't find that part as helpful as the rest. It was still helpful--just, you know, I already have a plan. My plan mostly comes from Dianne Jeppson's (is that her name?) ideas in the Thomas Jefferson Home Companion. I've already started putting together Life Skills Courses for Miriam when she turns 8. I'm really excited about them, actually. I'm also excited to take her out on special outing and introduce the classes to her and give her a new apron (and show her my matching apron) in honor of her new responsibilities. So much to look forward to. So much to do to finish putting classes together!!!

Anyway, back to the book. The second half of the book is about teaching finances and it is AWESOME. I am just amazed at how many good ideas she has. After I read the book I asked Timothy to read the chapters on finances. He did, and then we scheduled a time to talk about the chapters. I said, "Is there anything you want to do with our family that she did with hers?" Timothy said, "Yes. All of it." Which delighted me because I felt the exact same way. Timothy also told me to buy the book as a reference. The copy I read I checked out from the library.

So, at the beginning of Feb. we gave our kids an allowance for the first time. Something I thought I would never, ever do--but now seems like the perfect introduction to saving vs. spending. Cowen has opted to save his money for a mountain bike and get 100% matching interest from the Young Family Bank, but Miriam and Emeline decided to blow their dough. Emeline on a really cute and beloved Calico Critter rabbit baby, and Miriam on dollar store junk that she has played with endlessly. Whatever--the point is, they are getting interested in spending money and learning to make decisions and will eventually grasp interest and the value of saving. In short, I'm pleased with the experiment so far.

Her finance chapters cover why an allowance is a good idea until a child is 12 and reaches "financial independence," creating a family bank, teaching about interest, savings, bills, the value of money. My favorite idea she shared was giving kids age 12 and older a large sum of money in August for clothing and school supplies for the year. That way, they get to make grown-up decisions when they are still young enough to listen to you a little bit. They learn to budget out the money because when it is gone, it is gone. They have to decide whether or not an item is church approved, because if it isn't they can return it or it goes in the garbage. For me, the best part of that is that they have enough money that it matters. Growing up I never had more than $10 to my name and I think that really hurt me when I left home and had no finance skills.

She also talks about money chores and not giving your kids privileges for nothing (you want to visit a friend on Friday and borrow the car--then you wash the car to earn the privilege). I think all of her ideas are really helpful in combating the tendency of parents to do too much for their children.

She also discusses how to teach your kids about mutual funds, the stock market, wise investing and other things I don't understand. Timothy said he would help me. She also talks about the Mission Savings Fund--a really great plan that requires a child to contribute a certain amount of money every month to a savings fund with the contribution increasing as a child gets older. The parents match the child's investment and when a child hits age 19 they should have roughly $12,000 saved. Enough for a mission or, for girls who opt not to go on a mission, quite a bit of school. Pretty brilliant. Since the parents contribute half the funds, it makes it easier to be firm that it is mission money if a child starts to balk.

Anyway, there was too much good stuff for me to go into it all here. Let's just say, Timothy and I completely and radically changed our plans to teach about finances after reading this book. I definitely think this is an IMPROVEMENT and that our kids are lucky we read it.

What I've Been Reading

2010-11-14T14:15:00.004-06:00

In October I did manage to read one book. The Lost City of Z: A Tale of Deadly Obsession in the Amazon by David Grann. I loved it. Literally, from beginning to end, I couldn't put it down. It's about this Victorian explorer, Percy Fawcett, in the Amazon and how he disappears and over 100 people have died looking for him, (it's kind of an Amelia Earhart type obsession) and because he wrote articles for occult magazines and went to seances and that sort of stuff, many people still think he found his lost city and it's this otherworldly mystic place. I thought it fascinating in so many ways. First of all, it's a brilliant look at Victorian society, it's also interesting to learn how those explorers, ie Livingstone, Shackelton, Burton, etc., operated and how that morphed into the scientific expeditions you have now. Secondly, learning about the Amazon itself was crazy--I still think I have no comprehension of a forest that large. At first, after reading this book, I thought I really don't think I would go there, but then again, why not? Hee. Hee. Another part that I enjoyed was how this guy went into the Amazon with his 16 yr old son looking for traces of Fawcett in 1996, and barely made it out alive. Crazy! Basically the natives there said the same things to them as they had said to Fawcett 70 yrs before, that the natives that live to the east are pretty bad, you shouldn't travel in that direction. I mean, doesn't that make you just wonder whom that tribe of Indians are? And what do they know about Fawcett? Maybe there's still someone alive that could tell? What else do they know? I mean they still have no contact with the outside world at all. It kills me, I just want to pack up my bag and head out to ask them all sorts of things. I'd probably end up dead though. Anyway, lastly, my favorite part about the book was his discussion of archaeology in the Amazon. Basically I grew up believing that the Amazon was full of all sorts of tiny tribes that barely subsisted on hunting and gathering and that the Amazon was so sparsely populated and really not that interesting unless you liked eating bugs and getting nasty diseases. However, the conquistadors' accounts of the Amazon included that it was so populated that they would go days traveling on the Amazon with the banks being jam-packed with people and that huge bridges crossed it, and Amazonian women and the like. Well, everyone blew the conquistadors accounts off because they had good (monetary) reasons for exaggerating what they found in the Amazon. But now, archaeologists have actually found traces of huge civilizations in the Amazon complete with well-planned out right-angled streets, highways, and bridges that crossed the Amazon at points that were over a mile wide, etc. Now they think that diseases brought in by the conquistadors wiped out 90% of the population or more, so by the time anyone else came to explore they didn't find anything that the conquistadors had described. This is also due to the fact that there's very little stone in the Amazon, so everything was made with dirt and wood, which with flooding leaves very little traces. In fact, the native tribes made this kind of enriched soil, terra preta de Indio, (because of the Amazon's horribly infertile soil) and companies have started exporting it now because it's some of the most fertile soil you can find anywhere on the whole earth. Yet it's entirely man made and they made literally, TONS of it. Basically, any high ground in that part of the Amazon basin is man made, because it floods, so they built higher plateaus to keep above the floods and so they could grow crops during the flood season. Considering the engineering of it (technicalities and size), it's as grand as the pyramids of Egypt. Also in 2006 they discovered what's called the Stonehenge of the Amazon, believed to be anywhere from 500 to 2000 years old, which is a huge astronomical observatory tower made of huge granite blocks, each weighing several tons. Anyway, I think people still have a huge tendency to underrate ingenuity of other people. It also makes me think about all those BOM scholars and of their general belief that Guatemala and the central Americas are the "BOM lands." I personally think that's just what has been easiest to study in the past. Not saying they're necessarily wrong, maybe they're right, I just haven't seen any evidence given on why other places in the Americas should be eliminated from consideration. Anyway, just my thoughts on this cold, bleak, wintery day.

Anna Karenina

2010-11-08T22:58:00.001-06:00

Anyone read Anna Karenina?
I'm reading it now.
Not so sure about it.
I love his writing . . . but the theme is a bit . . . questionable.
I'll probably finish it.
The end.

So...

2010-10-28T18:26:00.003-05:00

And just because I care, here's a little video to make you laugh. I love them. So much that I stayed up way late laughing my head and was an emotional wreck the next day. Be careful if you watch more of her videos though, the language and whatnot is not always the best.

I couldn't help myself, I had to post another.

Hormones Continued

2010-10-28T17:23:00.000-05:00

This has all been great. Thanks, Kelly for being specific about your issues and the book. Very interesting.

For me, the hormonal birth control helped rather than hindered my horrible PMS/mood swings (btw - I've been wondering about the PMS myth and if it's cultural or real . . . I'll be checking out that book if for nothing other than the first chapter). J. said that was the best thing we ever did for our marriage (I beg to differ with that, but that's between J. and me!). :-) However, coming "off" the birth control was another story. For the past year I have been very wacky! Worse, I think, than before the IUD. When the doctors say, "You'll get pregnant within a month or two" . . . don't believe them! :-) Some months have been better than others, but I have felt out of kilter.

I, too, am more interested in the diet side of things. I want to figure out what MY body is lacking, not digesting, or just plain doesn't need!

Andrea - I agree with what you said about our mentality and hormones. It's still hard to distinguish . . .like Marilyn said. For instance, do you feel you should have "gone on something" when you were having all that rage? Or could you tell yourself that it would pass, knowing that it would and just not knowing when it would happen?

I had a dark period after Ethan was born (my 5th/youngest). It lasted a good two years, at least. I just kept pushing through it, using prayer as the main remedy. But I'm wondering if it might have lasted less time if I'd done something more preventative rather than just "dealing." Not even medication, but counselling might have helped. You know??

Then, looking back in hindsight I think, "Well, I got through it, so it must not have been that bad." But it was bad. So . . . .

It's just so HARD to know.

Don't we love being WOMEN!? :-)

Love you all.

JULIA

An Education

Reads

Modesty

books galore

books to read

Books

Run With Me: An Accidental Runner and the Power of Poo

New Favorite

Book suggestions

Misfit and other things

Sum Up and New Assignment

Oh, a few comments I forgot

Introducing Natalie my neighbor

Hmmm.....

couple more thoughts

Quote

The Spirit

YOUTH

Julia's Much too long response once again....

Slightly More Alarmist

Semantics

(and i agree with this)

The Youth

trust the process

Continual Education

TJEd and Moving On

take 2

While We're Chatting

Other TJEd article on Misfit

Misfit Again

I Agree with Marilyn

Misfit

and a postscript

I am annoyed

Thomas Jefferson Education

Shinichi Suzuki

The Virginian

Free Range Kids

Quiet Time

Real Quick

CONGRATS

Yep

Parenting

a post from me

Parenting Article

Resentment?

Bonds That Make Us Free: Chapter 7

Bonds That Make Us Free: Part One

Parenting and Habits

Food for Thought

Response

response to Kami

feedback

FEEDBACK PLEASE!!!!!

Finding our passion

Clean Your House!

Wimp

Response to my post a long time ago....

Response to Kelly

Once a Month Cleaning

might be awhile

Must Read Book

Gospel Study

Sunday Night Gospel Study

Time Revisited

Time, cont.

More on Time

Time

Virtues

Stuff

Two cents worth from a lurker..

Re: Kami's post

Notwithstanding My Weakness

Thoughts while vacuuming.....

Ether 12:27

Mosiah 3:19

In a Reading Funk

History Cont.

History

History